DSD, The last thing we need....
Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Page 1 of 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 162
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    GTA Canada
    Posts
    746
    Post Thanks / Like

    DSD, The last thing we need....

    Is another damn format, what's wrong with us audiophiles. It's new I gotta have it.

    Now I can't say the info in the following link is correct as I am no digital engineering guru, far from it. But based on hearing similar stuff from many experts in the industry, I think it is a good read.

    Sorry if this is old news.

    John Siau: Benchmark Audio Guru | Real HD-Audio


    Acoustical Systems, AMG, Aqua Acoustic Quality, Audeze, Audio Desk, Audible illusions, Audioquest, Aurender, Bryston, CH Precision, Chord Electronics, Constellation Audio, Dynaudiol, Fyne Audio, Grado labs, Ikeda, JL Audio, Kondo, Kronos, Kubala Sosna, Lumin, Luxman, Lyra, Magico, Nordost, PS Audio, Roon, Shunyata, SME, Sugden, Tenor, Tannoy, Vertere, VPI and ZYX.

    www.audiobymarkjones.ca

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    385
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    thx Mark, interesting article

    Wilson Benesch Eminence /Torus, CH Precision (Full Stack), Grand Prix Monaco V2.0/Thales Statement/Ortofon Century & MC A Mono, Innuos/Roon, Gobel Cables, Artesania/Herzan


    Martin Logan Masterpiece Renaissance ESL15A, Technical Brain TB-Zero/Int, Channel D Lino C, VPI HW-40/Fatboy(Gimball)/Audio Technica ART-1000, Neodio Origine S2, Iconoclast Cables, Artesania


    Focal Utopia Headphones, Benchmark DAC3/HPA4, Kef LS50, Danacable

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    1,062
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    It is true that despite the many vocal proponents of DSD that we have on this (and other) forum, not all audiophiles prefer DSD to hires PCM, just as not all prefer LP's to hires digital. It's often kind of difficult to tell by numbers of posts, though...

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,822
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    Problem is how many have heard "real" DSD and at what speed eg. DSD, 2X DSD or 4X DSD? And how many have truly compared both in the their own systems?
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    ____________________________________
    Magico S5 Mk. 2 speakers, cj ART300 amplifiers, cj GAT Series 2 preamplifier, Doshi V3.0 Phonostage, VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable/VPI dual pivot and gimbal Fatboy, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL, vdH Colibri Master Signature, Sumiko Songbird and Fuuga Cartridges, Technics RS1506 with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tapestage, Merrill Audio Tapestage, Viero, Transparent Gen. 5, Audience, Ensemble, Skogrand, MG Audio, Kubala-Sosna, Allnic, Audience cables, SRA Craz rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    874
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    Problem is how many have heard "real" DSD and at what speed eg. DSD, 2X DSD or 4X DSD? And how many have truly compared both in the their own systems?

    Not many i'd guess.

    How much material is really recorded in DSD to start with? Some production houses are honest and will tell you that the DSD stereo-layer contains 24bit master sources converted to DSD usually on a Meitner DAC. Most however appear silent on the issue and so one possible assumption is the recording is really PCM before quantizing to DSD.

    2L (Norway) do a nice job. Possible to pick up packages / files from them which contain CD/SACD and Blu Ray formats and DXD, DSD64, DSD128. They like DXD (4 x DSD) and often record at source in both 1 bit DSD and multi-bit PCM.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,822
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    Not many i'd guess.

    How much material is really recorded in DSD to start with? Some production houses are honest and will tell you that the DSD stereo-layer contains 24bit master sources converted to DSD usually on a Meitner DAC. Most however appear silent on the issue and so one possible assumption is the recording is really PCM before quantizing to DSD.

    2L (Norway) do a nice job. Possible to pick up packages / files from them which contain CD/SACD and Blu Ray formats and DXD, DSD64, DSD128. They like DXD (4 x DSD) and often record at source in both 1 bit DSD and multi-bit PCM.
    Most i'd proffer is converted somewhere in the chain unless it's from an an analog master (excepting if they're remixing in PCM).

    DXD is PCM. 24/358.2
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit...eme_Definition
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    ____________________________________
    Magico S5 Mk. 2 speakers, cj ART300 amplifiers, cj GAT Series 2 preamplifier, Doshi V3.0 Phonostage, VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable/VPI dual pivot and gimbal Fatboy, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL, vdH Colibri Master Signature, Sumiko Songbird and Fuuga Cartridges, Technics RS1506 with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tapestage, Merrill Audio Tapestage, Viero, Transparent Gen. 5, Audience, Ensemble, Skogrand, MG Audio, Kubala-Sosna, Allnic, Audience cables, SRA Craz rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    1,062
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    Problem is how many have heard "real" DSD and at what speed eg. DSD, 2X DSD or 4X DSD? And how many have truly compared both in the their own systems?
    I'm pretty sure both John and Marc (from the article) have heard all those formats, and possibly in some cases of the same recordings. As an aside, it was interesting to hear Marc at THE Show discuss the business aspect of being a small hires recording label, in this case hawking his own products in the Marketplace there.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,822
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    I'm pretty sure both John and Marc (from the article) have heard all those formats, and possibly in some cases of the same recordings. As an aside, it was interesting to hear Marc at THE Show discuss the business aspect of being a small hires recording label, in this case hawking his own products in the Marketplace there.
    I was referring to audiophiles and commercial products.

    As far Benchmark goes, they are kinda the mavericks out there.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    ____________________________________
    Magico S5 Mk. 2 speakers, cj ART300 amplifiers, cj GAT Series 2 preamplifier, Doshi V3.0 Phonostage, VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable/VPI dual pivot and gimbal Fatboy, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL, vdH Colibri Master Signature, Sumiko Songbird and Fuuga Cartridges, Technics RS1506 with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tapestage, Merrill Audio Tapestage, Viero, Transparent Gen. 5, Audience, Ensemble, Skogrand, MG Audio, Kubala-Sosna, Allnic, Audience cables, SRA Craz rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,705
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    I couldn't disagree more with the premise of this thread. While there is no universal consensus on whether DSD sounds better than PCM, since when do we ever have consensus on anything in this wacky hobby? The answer: never. However, I'm seeing more and more people talk about how they like DSD and prefer it over PCM and I certainly fall into that camp as well. When all of the chips have fallen and the dust has settled, it might come down to something as simple as people who detest analog and only listen to digital prefer PCM over DSD and people who listen to both analog and digital prefer DSD because it sounds the most like analog of any current digital format.

    Does DSD sound as good as analog either in LP format or tape? No, it doesn't. There is still a gap in sound quality in my opinion. The good news is that with DSD, you can let yourself relax and listen to music for prolonged periods of time and enjoy it. I have never found this to be true with PCM regardless of sampling rate and bit depth. Even though PCM has what I call 'wowie zowie' bass, it still manages to sound too thin and sharp over the long term to my ears. I can only take it so long (and not real long) before I feel compelled to get up and put on an LP so I can relax and float into the music.

    So, instead of saying DSD is "The last thing we need", I would say that it's exactly what digital needs in order to sound less artificial, painful, thin, bright, and more like real live music. And I say all of this knowing there are some people who will swear that MP3s sound just like a master tape and PCM sounds even better than a master tape and the worst sounding digital sounds better than the best sounding analog. Why? Because we don't hear the same, we love to argue, and we seldom agree on anything.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    8,711
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: DSD, The last thing we need....

    The merrier the music is the better life is.
    ~ Bob ~
    "And it Stoned me to my Soul" Van Morrison
    ClickAudiophile Audition
    Snoopy as the Red Baron attack
    Avatar = The Alan Parsons Project - Eye in the Sky (1982 - orbiting)

 

 
Page 1 of 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 11 ... LastLast