Cable Looms

I am a believer, hence the thread below this one. I always let my ears decide though!

Generally speaking, I think that cable looms are beneficial. It is soooo easy to get lost chasing a sound, that the cable loom gives you a base platform.

For the last 6 months, I found that using a different speaker cable benefitted my system. And when I tried using the new company for interconnects, it just didn't work for my tastes. But, I did prefer their speaker cable.

So, even tho I believe in the cable loom, I have gone against it. Sigh, but I believe this to be an exception and usually a cable loom is better. In the end, you just have to listen and find something that you like.

When I got my setup used, it came with 2 pair of ICs and Speaker cable from Synergistic Research. I wired it as such, CDP to Pre and Pre to Amp then Amp to speakers.

Several times I played around swapping one set of ICs or the other and always came back to the full loom of Synergistic. I have not played with Speaker cables all that much tho.

i dont know because ive never done it. but i will be soon, i have the speaker and ic already and like them so naturally adding the phono cable too will help the synergy.... i hope.lol.
the pc's from the same company (avanti) are better than what i have now, i know because i have one here and tested it against mine(tighter bass less noise seeming to make a better soundstage.) so one more for the incoming integrated seems like the right thing to do.
ive been mixing and matching cables for a long time, i just figured its time to try the full loom approach. ill see in a few months how it works out. but the old cable box keeps getting fuller and fuller. if i started a second and even third system i wouldnt need to buy any cables. and for what cables are selling for used its not worth it to even try to sell em for peanuts.
full loom and matching gear here i come, it will be a first for me. im excited to hear the outcome.

I think using a cable "loom" is beneficial in the same way it is beneficial for people to buy purebreed dogs. It gives you repeatability and predictability of traits. If you're mixing and matching, every experience is new and unpredictable. Having said this, I wouldn't include power cables as part of the "cable loom", only signal cables.

Personally, for whatever reason I hate that word.

Since good cables, and power, are another component, I put it in the same category as having either mixed gear, or single vendor gear. With that said, at this point I have a total Shunyata system from wall socket, power conditioner, power cables, signal cables, and speaker cables. This resulted from a performance increase as I added each piece. My philosophy is I may as well stay with what works, and the price/performance ratio is very nice.

Theoretically I agree with the full loom concept, but so often I read posts when people buy the amp and preamp of the same manufacturer, it can be too much of a good thing, so they buy a different manufacturers pre say. Wouldn't the same apply to cables as well?

I'm a loomer although I may plug in my MIT MAX-SHD speaker wire in again for something different.

Big believer in the full loom. Tried mixing different brands before but something sounds right about sticking to one brand.

I like the same IC's and Speaker cables. Power cables to best match the amps....might be full loom or not.

Since most cable manufacturers have a vision of what they are attempting to achieve once you find something that gets you closer to what you are looking for then you are better off getting the full loom. With so many fine cables on the market there should be at least one manufacturer that meets your needs.

I was thing of introducing some Siltech Queen or Empress ICs & swapping out WWPEG7s at the amps & mixing up "the loom" a bit but....

The system which also has WW Platinum Eclipse loudspeaker cables & Platinum Starlight HDMI bundles has appeared to have broken another performance threshold at approx 1,000 hrs with all of these WireWorld Platinum G7s doing their magic in harmony.

Everything from watching & listening to Kill Bill 1&2 again to spinning the latest 45rpm vinyl reissues has taken on further dimensions which was somewhat unexpected. I thought the WW Platinums peaked out at around 400 hrs. I was critically mistaken.

It would seem that the WireWorld Platinums are another one of those premium cables that are in the 800+ hour club to beyond the twilight zone.

I'm inclined to not want to change or disturb anything back there because I'm in such a good place to be at right now.

OK so I started this thread and have been remiss--though a lot has been going on--with continuing this discussion. So before I hit the beach.

I think people have made a lot of good comments and a good points. I think at surface level, a loom makes a lot of sense. But in real world situations, not sure it always holds true. Lately, I've really been breaking the cabling situation down into blocks:

1. Phono
2. IC
3. Speaker cable
4. Power cords

First thing: phono cables. Jonathan Carr recently posted some very interesting observations about phono cable capacitance and its interaction with MC coil cartridges. The upshot was that cable capacitance can lead to ultrasonic spikes and potentially overload the phono section. Jonathan instead recommended using a very, very low capacitance phono cable and then decrease the loading values (eg. from 100 to say 400 or so ohms) on the phono section and get better sound rather than using a capacitive cable and decrease the loading values (eg. to around 100 or so ohms) . I'm still experimenting with that idea.

2. Speaker cables: It would seem to me to be hard to build a speaker cable that would work with all amplifier/speaker combinations, esp. when considering the issues of back EMF. For instance, I have heard some cables the really didn't sound good on electrostatics but sounded very good on dynamic driveres.

3. Power cords: Probably the area where I've found the biggest differences among cables. It appears that as one goes to bigger wattage amplifiers, fewer and fewer power cords work. In other words, I find the majority of power cords just choke the system's dynamics.

I'm with those who feel power cords are in a separate category than signal cables, although the cord to my integrated happens (at this time, at least) to be the same brand as my signal cables (all Acoustic Zen).

Myles B. Astor said:

Power cords: Probably the area where I've found the biggest differences among cables. It appears that as one goes to bigger wattage amplifiers, fewer and fewer power cords work. In other words, I find the majority of power cords just choke the system's dynamics.

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So, for high power amps no power cord works best?

Or the stock cord works better than a replacement cord?

I have to disagree with this statement. Shunyata cords are designed to minimize DTCD loss, and will most likely work better than cords with higher DTCD loss. Of course, one might prefer the sound of the inferior cable, but that is a different subject.

BlueFox said:

So, for high power amps no power cord works best?

Or the stock cord works better than a replacement cord?

I have to disagree with this statement. Shunyata cords are designed to minimize DTCD loss, and will most likely work better than cords with higher DTCD loss. Of course, one might prefer the sound of the inferior cable, but that is a different subject.

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It appears that as one goes to bigger wattage amplifiers, fewer and fewer power cords work.

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I'm sorry but no where in my post did I say *ALL* power cords. Please don't put words in my mouth. The only place where I didn't find an after market PC (and granted this isn't an amplifier) to make an improvement over the stock cord was with my old ML Summit (or earlier hybrid speakers).

As far as point 2, it depends on the manufacturer. Some companies include more than a stock cord and others don't. But yes in some cases, I didn't find the replacement PC -- esp. considering the cost -- to always work better than the stock cord. Not to mention that PC/amplifier combinations seem to be highly unpredictable. What if the replacement PC is brighter? For me, that's a deal breaker right there. Nor does it justify the additional cost.

Simply of all the PCs I've tried--and I haven't heard every one in the world--very few have worked with big wattage power amplifiers. Many have been OK with amplifiers under 100 watts but it seems that PCs become less predictable with large wattage amps.

I'm glad that you find the Shunyatas to work and respect Caelin's work. BTW, what amplifiers are you using?

Perhaps it might be nice if Caelin or Grant chimed in here!

Myles B. Astor said:

I'm sorry but no where in my post did I say *ALL* power cords. Please don't put words in my mouth. The only place where I didn't find an after market PC (and granted this isn't an amplifier) to make an improvement over the stock cord was with my old ML Summit (or earlier hybrid speakers).

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LOL. Lighten up. I was joking, and taking your statement, It appears that as one goes to bigger wattage amplifiers, fewer and fewer power cords work., to its conclusion. By "no power cord" I meant "no power cord", i.e. air.

I'm glad that you find the Shunyatas to work and respect Caelin's work. BTW, what amplifiers are you using?

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Pass Labs X600.5.

As as an engineer, I appreciate the technology behind Shunyata's cables, and every one I have used has made a positive difference. As a side-note, adding a Cyclops to each 20 amp line for each amp really lowered the background noise and just made the sound better.

I hate to admit it - but power cords do make a difference. Razzin' frazzin' voodoo! I tried my Ansuz D vs TaraLabs vs Shunyata HC and the Ansuz sounded best on the Hegel.


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BlueFox said:

LOL. Lighten up. I was joking, and taking your statement, It appears that as one goes to bigger wattage amplifiers, fewer and fewer power cords work., to its conclusion. By "no power cord" I meant "no power cord", i.e. air.



Pass Labs X600.5.

As as an engineer, I appreciate the technology behind Shunyata's cables, and every one I have used has made a positive difference. As a side-note, adding a Cyclops to each 20 amp line for each amp really lowered the background noise and just made the sound better.

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Yes but it's asymptotic.

As far as the Shunyatas go, I was the first reviewer to cover their PCs years ago. They've come quite a way but back then they really made a difference on digital gear.