Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers

kiwi_1282001 said:
Sixmoon’s visit to Børresen Acoustics



Srajan Ebaen of Sixmoons.com has just published a very interesting article on his recent visit to Borresen Acoustics and the innovative new technologies used in Borresen loudspeakers. This is excellent reading for current Borresen speaker owners.


https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/borresen/



Borresen is one of the few loudspeaker manufacturers to design and build drivers in house. I was not previously aware of the use of perforated HDF discs which are claimed to create a pressure environment bigger than the cabinet and also mean [for the Borresen 02 and upward] that drivers sharing the same port don’t see each other.


Borresen-Acoustics-Audioshark-HDF-disc-in-Borresen-02-speaker.jpg

Source acknowledgement: Srajan Ebaen, Sixmoons, Review Borresen 02, accessed online 27 August 2019, see above link. Photo of Borresen designed woofers together with a perforated HDF disc which sits behind the woofer.



And then there’s the esoteric stuff – dither tech which designer Michael Borresen is said to have based on an approach borrowed from marine sonar. The injection of Schuman resonance and harmonics to combat a widely known problem of cabling acting as antennas. All cables can act like antennas, both to transmit and receive and this problem has gotten significantly worse in recent times with popularity of WiFi for streaming, not to mention the proliferation of cellular and other wireless technologies used in the modern home. Accordingly, dither tech is also incorporated as filtering in some products of the Ansuz Acoustics product range.


Borresen-Acoustics-Audioshark-Cabinet-render-Borresen-02-speaker.jpg

Source acknowledgement: Srajan Ebaen, Sixmoons, Review Borresen 02, accessed online 27 August 2019, see above link. Render of Borresen 02 loudspeaker showing cabinet internals including the drivers, driver internal chambers and HDF discs. At higher SPL the behavior of the ported alignment is said to shift to more of a sealed box to improve control and power handling.
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Thanks for the link kiwi. Srajan Ebaen of Sixmoons.com writes about a great deal of new technology being used in the Borresen line. I already know from using some of the Ansuz products Borresen knows a lot about A/C power conditioning/distribution and resonance control. Look forward to hearing the speakers one day. Hopefully Borresen Acoustics will be successful in the U.S.
 
LenWhite said:
. Hopefully Borresen Acoustics will be successful in the U.S.
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It is getting the the point where I wonder what it is going to take for any speaker company to be successful in the US or elsewhere. I quickly looked thru the recent Absolute Sound "high end speaker and cable issue". I was absolutely stunned to see that there are about 70 speaker from 32 manufacturers with pricing from about $100k and up. IMHO there are not that many companies with the bona fides to play in that sandbox.
 
There are indeed a lot of speakers in the marketplace. I'm attaching an article by Roy Gregory in the "The Audio Beat" speaking to some of the sales issues of Raidho prior to Dantax ownership. While Gregory gives much design credit to Michael Borresen, his critique of business practices is something they should carefully consider if their companies are to be successful.

Gregory's article also gives much credit to Dantax for Raidho technical and marketing advancements. It sounds very much like Raidho is in good hands.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/raidho_xt5.htm
 
still-one said:
It is getting the the point where I wonder what it is going to take for any speaker company to be successful in the US or elsewhere. I quickly looked thru the recent Absolute Sound "high end speaker and cable issue". I was absolutely stunned to see that there are about 70 speaker from 32 manufacturers with pricing from about $100k and up. IMHO there are not that many companies with the bona fides to play in that sandbox.
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So, Jim, how would a given company's "bona fides" be qualified and assessed?

Cheers,
Stephen
 
Puma Cat said:
So, Jim, how would a given company's "bona fides" be qualified and assessed?

Cheers,
Stephen
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By establishing a historical track record of producing outstanding sounding speakers at a lower price point first.

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
By establishing a historical track record of producing outstanding sounding speakers at a lower price point first.

Ken
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Fair enough. From a practical perspective, how are these metrics established and agreed to? E.g., how is oustanding "measured" and what would be the target price point? And over what time frame for to establish a "historical record"?

I guess the operative question to speak to Jim's comment is..."How is success defined or "measured"?
 
I wouldn't think it would be by having your first model out of the gate being a limited frequency 2-way monitor starting at $30k plus another $5k for the stands. But that's just me as I'm sure there is a group that will have a different opinion shortly.
 
Puma Cat said:
Fair enough. From a practical perspective, how are these metrics established and agreed to? E.g., how is oustanding "measured" and what would be the target price point? And over what time frame for to establish a "historical record"?
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Outstanding sounding is not something you can necessarily measure, although measurements sometimes do support what you hear (i.e. flat frequency response). It is something you ascertain by listening. Lower price point could be anywhere from $20K to $60K. Historical track record from 5 to 10 years. YMMV.

Ken
 
LenWhite said:
Thanks for the link kiwi. Srajan Ebaen of Sixmoons.com writes about a great deal of new technology being used in the Borresen line. I already know from using some of the Ansuz products Borresen knows a lot about A/C power conditioning/distribution and resonance control. Look forward to hearing the speakers one day. Hopefully Borresen Acoustics will be successful in the U.S.
Click to expand...


I’m pleased you enjoyed the article Len. I understand there will be a follow on article sometime in the near future. Are you able to make it to the RMAF show next month in Denver?



still-one said:
It is getting the the point where I wonder what it is going to take for any speaker company to be successful in the US or elsewhere. I quickly looked thru the recent Absolute Sound "high end speaker and cable issue". I was absolutely stunned to see that there are about 70 speaker from 32 manufacturers with pricing from about $100k and up. IMHO there are not that many companies with the bona fides to play in that sandbox.
Click to expand...


Hi Jim. Speaking generally, many foreign manufacturers have found the U.S. market a tough nut to crack, so much so that some elect not to offer their product there at all – which is a shame. Success in the U.S. market can be elusive. Sometimes principals make a poor choice of distributor or mess up pricing policy. Sometimes resellers/dealers don’t represent the brand well. Othertime’s principals who are often unfamiliar with the U.S. market just do something stupid. There’s a lot to get right and channels are evolving with more manufacturer direct to retailer relationships and certainly more manufacturer direct selling to customers.


VT Skier said:
[…] I stand with Jock in noting that extreme discounting was common in the U.S. for Raidho products when Lars K and Michael B worked there, and when they claimed to be among the principals of the company. It would not surprise me to learn that a similar pricing model is being used with Borresen Acoustics products. In fact, I would be more surprised if they weren't relying on very heavy discounting here given the paucity of U.S. dealers (one? two?) and general lack of a U.S. presence. […]
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Remembering back to an old Raidho thread where Mike offered what I thought was some sage advice to John Jensen (the major shareholder of Dantax A/S, parent of Raidho) on Raidho pricing policy, discounting, channel discipline (among other things) it was clear Mike, at that time a Raidho dealer, was keen to see reduced MSRP and discounting on the product range. Unfortunately the request appeared to fall on deaf ears as nothing meaningfully changed. The point here is that pricing policy is usually in the hands of or at least approved by the company CEO / owners.

No doubt past mistakes have been made as you quite correctly paint, but there is cause to be hopeful that some learning has come from them. As we have learned from an earlier post Borresen has a different pricing policy to Raidho. Further, at RMAF next month Borresen will launch the first model of its Z-series, the Z01. Pricing will be along the lines of what Mike had hoped from Raidho i.e. a loudspeaker comparable in quality to the Raidho D-1.1 but at a significantly lower MSRP. A step in the right direction? Time will tell.
 
kiwi_1282001 said:
I’m pleased you enjoyed the article Len. I understand there will be a follow on article sometime in the near future. Are you able to make it to the RMAF show next month in Denver?






Hi Jim. Speaking generally, many foreign manufacturers have found the U.S. market a tough nut to crack, so much so that some elect not to offer their product there at all – which is a shame. Success in the U.S. market can be elusive. Sometimes principals make a poor choice of distributor or mess up pricing policy. Sometimes resellers/dealers don’t represent the brand well. Othertime’s principals who are often unfamiliar with the U.S. market just do something stupid. There’s a lot to get right and channels are evolving with more manufacturer direct to retailer relationships and certainly more manufacturer direct selling to customers.

Of course as Ken points out having great sounding speakers at a reasonable price point is helpful. Remembering back to an old Raidho thread where Mike offered what I thought was some sage advice to John Jensen (the major shareholder of Dantax A/S, parent of Raidho) on Raidho pricing policy, discounting, channel discipline (among other things) it was clear Mike, at that time a Raidho dealer, was keen to see reduced MSRP and discounting on the product range. Unfortunately the request appeared to fall on deaf ears as nothing meaningfully changed.

No doubt past mistakes have been made as Jon I think quite correctly paints but there is cause to be hopeful that some learning has come from them. At RMAF next month Borresen will launch the first model of its Z-series, the Z01. Pricing will be along the lines of what Mike had hoped from Raidho i.e. a loudspeaker comparable in quality to the Raidho D-1.1 but at a significantly lower MSRP. A step in the right direction? Time will tell.
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Just to be clear my comments were not aimed towards Borresen.

I cannot speak for the global speaker market but as for the US sector I find it absurd that 32 manufacturers are offering product in range from ~$100k and up.
 
The company also would need to be trustworthy to warrant such high prices. That will be Borresen’s Achilles Heel, as the marketing approach is dishonest.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
still-one said:
Just to be clear my comments were not aimed towards Borresen.

I cannot speak for the global speaker market but as for the US sector I find it absurd that 32 manufacturers are offering product in range from ~$100k and up.
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That was understood Jim. Thanks.

Beyond offering products at sane pricing I further agree an established dealer and service network is important. Easier said then done though.
 
kiwi_1282001 said:
I’m pleased you enjoyed the article Len. I understand there will be a follow on article sometime in the near future. Are you able to make it to the RMAF show next month in Denver?
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Not this year, but perhaps next year as my daughter lives in the Denver area.

I thought the 6 Moons review was very well written. It's the first time I read a clear explanation of the differences between audio playback vs. live music.

I really do appreciate what Borresen is doing for audio, particularly cabling and resonance control which I've heard in my audio system. I wouldn't mind trying two sets of Track Audio Isolation Feet mentioned by Roy Gregory in his XT5 review, but I don't know of any way to remove the original aluminum feet on the D3s. And just putting resonance control under the existing feet would raise the entire speaker. Roy Gregory also mentioned in his Raidho XT5 review that adjustment of rake angle and attitude is a critical factor in maximizing the performance of any speaker with this tall and narrow a radiating area.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/raidho_xt5.htm
 
Borresen-Acoustics-Model-01-Review-Low-Beats-Germany.jpg

Photo / Source Acknowledgement: Test Børresen 01: Kompaktlautsprecher vom anderen Stern, accessed online 28th August 2019, LowBeats ist ein innovatives Online-HiFi-Magazin.


Being an owner of Borresen 01 loudspeakers I’ve been patiently waiting for some reviews to come out. I had hoped to see a review on the Model 01 from Jonathan Valin but perhaps after his Munich High End 2019 Best Loudspeaker Report he’s decided to jump on some Borresen 05’s instead, which he favorably compared to his current reference loudspeakers, the giant and simply fabulous $260k MBL X-Tremes.


So this then is the first Borresen 01 speaker review I’ve seen. Unfortunately its in German – but don’t fear – your browser should offer a translate function which seems to do a reasonable job of conveying the message of Mr. Frank Borowski of LowBeats a German Online HiFi Magazine.




https://www.lowbeats.de/test-borresen-01-kompaktlautsprecher/




There is always a “feel good” factor when you read a glowing review of any audio product you own and Mr. Borowski’s conclusion was quite effusive “Nevertheless, I can not help but call the 01 soberly the best compact speakers I've ever heard. And the "compact" could actually be deleted in the sentence for many areas. In my opinion, driver technology represents one of the biggest advances in loudspeaker development in many years.”
 
LenWhite said:
Not this year, but perhaps next year as my daughter lives in the Denver area.

I thought the 6 Moons review was very well written. It's the first time I read a clear explanation of the differences between audio playback vs. live music.

I really do appreciate what Borresen is doing for audio, particularly cabling and resonance control which I've heard in my audio system. I wouldn't mind trying two sets of Track Audio Isolation Feet mentioned by Roy Gregory in his XT5 review, but I don't know of any way to remove the original aluminum feet on the D3s. And just putting resonance control under the existing feet would raise the entire speaker. Roy Gregory also mentioned in his Raidho XT5 review that adjustment of rake angle and attitude is a critical factor in maximizing the performance of any speaker with this tall and narrow a radiating area.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/raidho_xt5.htm
Click to expand...


Hello Len,

I am not familiar with the footers used on the Raidho XT5, though Roy Gregory clearly believes they are an improvement over the original design used in the Raidho C & D series.

To be honest I never really had a problem with the original footers as used on your speakers – my only wish being that they were adjustable since floors are rarely perfectly even. What I did with the C-series and D-series speakers I owned was sit them on a wool carpet or mat that was dense enough so that slight variations in flooring evenness was absorbed and the speakers were thus stable. Done just right a small sliver of the aluminum should be visible when looking at it from floor level as seen in the below photo which I borrowed from a Jeff Fritz review [Ultra Audio / SoundStage!, “The World's Best Audio System - Ribbons and Revelations: Raidho Acoustics C2.1 Loudspeakers”, 01 May 2012]


Audioshark-Forums-speakers-10-Borresen-Acoustics-thread-Ultra.jpg



I am not familiar with your current implementation but can I suggest – if you haven’t already – give carpet a try.

Another but more expensive option is to contact your Raidho dealer and ask them what options are available. I believe the D3 footers can be removed and replaced with adjustable diamond or aluminium feet, available as accessories from Raidho. Beyond balancing out uneven floors this would give some rake adjustment ability - though if your ears are at tweeter level you should already be enjoying excellent high frequency performance.

I’m not sure that Track Audios Isolation feet are a step in the right direction or whether there is any easy way to implement them in your case. I can tell you designer Michael Borresen hates spikes with a passion and there is a growing trend by some of the world’s leading loudspeaker manufacturers (for example Magico) and 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party accessory providers (for example Nordost & Ansuz) to offer speaker upgrades which replace spikes with a very different type of floor coupling.
 
LenWhite said:
Not this year, but perhaps next year as my daughter lives in the Denver area.

I thought the 6 Moons review was very well written. It's the first time I read a clear explanation of the differences between audio playback vs. live music.

I really do appreciate what Borresen is doing for audio, particularly cabling and resonance control which I've heard in my audio system. I wouldn't mind trying two sets of Track Audio Isolation Feet mentioned by Roy Gregory in his XT5 review, but I don't know of any way to remove the original aluminum feet on the D3s. And just putting resonance control under the existing feet would raise the entire speaker. Roy Gregory also mentioned in his Raidho XT5 review that adjustment of rake angle and attitude is a critical factor in maximizing the performance of any speaker with this tall and narrow a radiating area.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/raidho_xt5.htm
Click to expand...
Raidho does offer the adjustable diamond foot option. I never wanted to believe they were worth the money. But when I got my D2.1's they had the diamond feet. After having the speakers for a couple of weeks I asked my dealer to put the original feet in to save a few bucks. It worked out great because he had an order for the diamond feet who wanted them right away. Hate to say it but the 2.1's lost a layer or 2 of resolution. After a week I asked my dealer to order me the diamond feet. When I ordered my D3.1's I was able to keep the base with the diamond feet because the bases are interchangeable. Another option would be the Ansuz Darkz D-TC adjustable footers that have dimples on the top to be used under the D1/D2/D3 feet. The retail is about the same as I recall. They do raise the speaker up and according to Mike Borresen that won't make a significant difference in SQ if any. I never tried them under my 2.1's or 3.1's. That said when I had D1's I did put granite slabs under the stand which raised the speaker height. Until then the D1's were sitting on padded carpet over concrete. The sound got a bit more forward from top to bottom which for me was an improvement. A friend who had D2's at the time that sat on a non carpeted surface tried some granite under them. Honestly it really didn't make any difference compared what I heard with the D1's. The downside of the granite is if the speaker slides off the slab they will fall over. That happened to my friend when his big dog went wild and ran into one. Luckily he was right there to catch it.

As far as changing the angle I tried it with with the 3.1's and I tilted them back. The one thing I noticed with all the Raidho's I had is when when you stood up you lost some of the highs. It helped some. It doesn't happen with my 03's so I keep the 'level'.
 
octadyndude said:
[...]
As far as changing the angle I tried it with with the 3.1's and I tilted them back. The one thing I noticed with all the Raidho's I had is when when you stood up you lost some of the highs. It helped some. It doesn't happen with my 03's so I keep the 'level'.
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That's a really interesting observation George. Yes, I also noticed that with the Raidho speakers but not with the Borresen's where the vertical dispersion and HF content of the tweeter remains excellent even when listening in a standing position.
 
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