AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

nicoff said:
$45 dollars? That sounds expensive!

These 2" x 2"x 7/8" isolators are for sale at Amazon for less than $10 for a package of four. I wonder how much different they are. By the way, I use the 4" x 4" under my turntable and they do damp the vibration from the equipment rack.

DiversiTech MP2-E E.V.A. Anti-Vibration Pad, 2" x 2" x 7/8" , Pack of 4
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They look similar, but the DiversiTech pads are for heavy machinery and made of foam or cork, where EVPs are made of layers of glass fibers working as leaf springs. If you look at the DiversiTech information you'll find that they for machinery starting at 50 psi, so for four 2" pads your equipment needs to weigh about 400 lbs, and four of the 4" would mean 800 lbs. They don't publish minimum loads, and in order for isolation pads to function, they need to be loaded properly- too much or too little weight and they don't isolate. EVPs are designed specifically for audio equipment- meaning that they control vibrations from sub through the audible bandwidth, and their resonant frequency is below the audio spectrum (actually about 3 Hz.). DiversiTech doesn't publish any lab tests, but if they did, you'd likely find resonant frequencies in the audible spectrum, which is not a good thing for noise control or sound quality.
 
I just put the 2” x 2” isolators bought from Amazon under my speakers and they work great. I put 4 isolators under each speaker. A less than $13 tweak that works great. That’s what I call good value.
 
I’ve used the cheap 2x2 isolator blocks mentioned here for quite some time in various capacities, both alone and in conjunction with Isoacoustics disc style isolators. I was able to recently compare those directly against the EVP under a preamp and a DVD player, each weighing around 10 lbs and in more and less vibration sensitive locations, respectively, on a sturdy Salamander Designs rack. After letting the EVPs settle for several hours — I did one component then both — the all-around improvement was substantial. I’ve found the cheap ones are useful under small peripherals such as a cable box and LPS, as well as to physically isolate and separate cables, but for main gear they are not in the same class as the EVP. I don’t know why the small EVPs have gone from $29 to $45 each in a relatively short time, unless the price of glass fibers has leaped or perhaps to take advantage of good reviews, but at the current price they are still relatively inexpensive as good high end audio tweaks go these days.
 
highstream said:
I don’t know why the small EVPs have gone from $29 to $45 each in a relatively short time, unless the price of glass fibers has leaped or perhaps to take advantage of good reviews, but at the current price they are still relatively inexpensive as good high end audio tweaks go these days.
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The cost has incrementally increased as manufacturing costs have risen. Most notably, we now stitch the EVP core so they can't split open if mishandled, the plates are now laser cut, we use a new adhesive for rubber finishes, the painting process is much higher quality, etc. I believe they are still one of the best values in audio. Getting the room to be quite is very revealing!
 
Norman Varney said:
The cost has incrementally increased as manufacturing costs have risen. Most notably, we now stitch the EVP core so they can't split open if mishandled, the plates are now laser cut, we use a new adhesive for rubber finishes, the painting process is much higher quality, etc. I believe they are still one of the best values in audio. Getting the room to be quite is very revealing!
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I just installed these under my sub tonight, Norm, and I would agree...what they do is make the room QUIET. It is very revealing, as you say.

The positive impact this has on the presentation cannot be overstated, IMHO....
 
calloway said:
As an update on my usage of the AV Room Service EVP devices i have recently added 4 of the 4" HDR devices under each of my REL 212 SE subs with very positive results. These replaced the Symposium Ultra platforms previously used that were very good. The EVPs improved the bass significantly more with a marked improvement in the quickness of the bass notes as well as a marked sharpening of the whole soundstage secondary to the non blurring of the lower frequencies.At their cost they are...to me ..a no brainer. The company ..Norman Varney...is a great gentleman to work with also.
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Yes, I agree with your findings completely. Just put them under my REL sub tonight. Your description is very accurate.

Reflecting on it, my hypothesis is they quiet down the room considerably.
 
Puma Cat said:
Yes, I agree with your findings completely. Just put them under my REL sub tonight. Your description is very accurate.

Reflecting on it, my hypothesis is they quiet down the room considerably.
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Was your REL sub making a bunch of racket in your room before you installed the EVP feet under it and now with the EVP feet installed your sub stopped making racket and now your room is more quiet?
 
@elliotg, Sell what you had or sell them generally -- and if the latter, in what capacity? What I'd like to keep track of is when Norm has sales, since they are not announced on his website.
 
elliotg said:
I ordered some to try and liked them so I decided to become a dealer for them and in the first two weeks I have purchased around 100 of them and 3 of my clients have already done their system or part of their system. The EVP's work and they are affordable, don't require some weird break etc.
BTW there is a price increase Jan. 1
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After spending hrs of reading praises and the so-called affordable EVP, I got the impression that some who is not afraid of publishing experimental data (including the one written by Bob Katz) is really
doing something good to the audiophile communities through selling excellent products at an affordable price!

I first learnt its 29 usd in 2019. The performance was already reportedly excellent according to many users.

Suddenly I noted that someone mentioned that the price was changed to $35/9 in 2020.

Then $45 each at some point in time before 2021. Ok some still said it’s relatively cheap, compared to perhaps, Iso Acoustic Gaia?

Remember you have to buy eight pieces. Before at $29 each one only have to pay $232 for a pair of speaker stands.

At$45, it’s $360 - ok it’s testing people’s spending power.

No, wait, after reading all reviews, I’m interested to try the product and went to the store... what? $89 each? It’s 2021 July, so after two years, the company tripled the price!!!!

That’s the most quickly markup price I have seen in audio accessories.

It’s now $712 for eight pieces of evp. Some said it’s due to substantial increase of manufacturing cost. God knows... but the “cheaper” materials already gave superb performance why risking a triple price increase to alienate the customers?

Two years ago people praised evp for three reasons. Price, proven effect, seemingly evidence-based.

I have pointed out the seemingly absurd pricing policy change and therefore a change of branding the product. After waves of professional endorsements by Jim, Bob Katz and so on, it has now repositioned itself as high end products which regardless of the actual cost, the price is now even more expensive than Iso Acoustics Gaia.

How about the other two reasons?

Like all audio accessories, their effects are actually conditioned by the real listening variables including the Structural construction Of walls and floors and so on. Bob Katz’s paper actually report very complicated findings though he stressed EVP is better. Simply put, there is no absolute guarantee that EVP could be better than other isolating devices you’re using across all frequency spectrum in your real world.

This is not to discredit the product. In fact I really want to try it. But I am uncomfortable with the shift of company direction. If you’re really want to try, I also suggest you buy the article written by Bob Katz and the commentary on Bob Katz article in stereophile.

Another story: according to many “testimonials” across the web, many people seem to get email replies directly from the company owner, who helped them addressing their individual concerns. Or maybe my impression is incorrect. Nonetheless my experience is that I wrote a detailed email asking very specific uses of EVP including the platform ones. All I got a day later is obviously a copy and paste reply. It doesn’t even answer my questions about the platform version. I guess it somehow reflects what’s going on in the company, or the company shit of direction to, high end products?

The esoteric market of speaker isolators has been dominated by high price policy. Some always sell their products at ridiculous high price. So when I first investigate EVP I was thrilled that someone is doing the business differently. That happens ten years ago when Weizhi, a Taiwan company made and sold graphite-based isolators at very cheap prices, but then quickly widely praised by many international reviews. The result? They increased the price dramatically and are now selling those 480 usd for four isolators. Many “ordinary” audiophiles were angry since they couldn’t afford them anymore. But who knows? They think that is the better business model.

EVP according to many testimonials should perform well in many conditions . But after knowing the new tripled price, oh well ...

Ps: I have Weizhi isolators and I know they work very well.
 
chacha7 said:
After spending hrs of reading praises and the so-called affordable EVP, I got the impression that some who is not afraid of publishing experimental data (including the one written by Bob Katz) is really
doing something good to the audiophile communities through selling excellent products at an affordable price!

I first learnt its 29 usd in 2019. The performance was already reportedly excellent according to many users.

Suddenly I noted that someone mentioned that the price was changed to $35/9 in 2020.

Then $45 each at some point in time before 2021. Ok some still said it’s relatively cheap, compared to perhaps, Iso Acoustic Gaia?

Remember you have to buy eight pieces. Before at $29 each one only have to pay $232 for a pair of speaker stands.

At$45, it’s $360 - ok it’s testing people’s spending power.

No, wait, after reading all reviews, I’m interested to try the product and went to the store... what? $89 each? It’s 2021 July, so after two years, the company tripled the price!!!!

That’s the most quickly markup price I have seen in audio accessories.

It’s now $712 for eight pieces of evp. Some said it’s due to substantial increase of manufacturing cost. God knows... but the “cheaper” materials already gave superb performance why risking a triple price increase to alienate the customers?

Two years ago people praised evp for three reasons. Price, proven effect, seemingly evidence-based.

I have pointed out the seemingly absurd pricing policy change and therefore a change of branding the product. After waves of professional endorsements by Jim, Bob Katz and so on, it has now repositioned itself as high end products which regardless of the actual cost, the price is now even more expensive than Iso Acoustics Gaia.

How about the other two reasons?

Like all audio accessories, their effects are actually conditioned by the real listening variables including the Structural construction Of walls and floors and so on. Bob Katz’s paper actually report very complicated findings though he stressed EVP is better. Simply put, there is no absolute guarantee that EVP could be better than other isolating devices you’re using across all frequency spectrum in your real world.

This is not to discredit the product. In fact I really want to try it. But I am uncomfortable with the shift of company direction. If you’re really want to try, I also suggest you buy the article written by Bob Katz and the commentary on Bob Katz article in stereophile.

Another story: according to many “testimonials” across the web, many people seem to get email replies directly from the company owner, who helped them addressing their individual concerns. Or maybe my impression is incorrect. Nonetheless my experience is that I wrote a detailed email asking very specific uses of EVP including the platform ones. All I got a day later is obviously a copy and paste reply. It doesn’t even answer my questions about the platform version. I guess it somehow reflects what’s going on in the company, or the company shit of direction to, high end products?

The esoteric market of speaker isolators has been dominated by high price policy. Some always sell their products at ridiculous high price. So when I first investigate EVP I was thrilled that someone is doing the business differently. That happens ten years ago when Weizhi, a Taiwan company made and sold graphite-based isolators at very cheap prices, but then quickly widely praised by many international reviews. The result? They increased the price dramatically and are now selling those 480 usd for four isolators. Many “ordinary” audiophiles were angry since they couldn’t afford them anymore. But who knows? They think that is the better business model.

EVP according to many testimonials should perform well in many conditions . But after knowing the new tripled price, oh well ...

Ps: I have Weizhi isolators and I know they work very well.
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I think it's important to understand the impact the pandemic has had on anything being manufactured today. The cost of raw materials, logistics, manufacturing, quality control, quality assurance (which is not the same thing a quality control), packaging, shipping have all gone up considerably because of the pandemic. Car prices, both new and used, are up something like 45% in what is generally an extremely competitive market with respect to pricing. I know from audio manufacturers first-hand that their prices for parts, components, raw materials, etc., etc. have really taken a hit from the pandemic.

Also...Norm Varney is incredibly knowledgeable, experienced, and also..a REALLY nice guy. So, if you have any questions, my recommendation is to call him on the phone and talk with him directly. Cheers.
 
I have found that many of these esoteric type products have already raised their prices pre-covid.
Not sure what is going to happen with the pricing once the current increased prices of raw materials to the manufacturers actually winds it's way down to consumer level.
It often seems that prices are increased based on the popularity of the product.
Let's face it, "Hi End" audio is exactly that and the price of admission is high.
 
jadedavid said:
I have found that many of these esoteric type products have already raised their prices pre-covid.
Not sure what is going to happen with the pricing once the current increased prices of raw materials to the manufacturers actually winds it's way down to consumer level.
It often seems that prices are increased based on the popularity of the product.
Let's face it, "Hi End" audio is exactly that and the price of admission is high.
Click to expand...

I just spoke to Norm at A/V Service today and in our conversation, he mentioned that since the pandemic hit, the price of steel has gone up considerably.

That statement is backed by this article which states the price of steel is up....200% in 2021.

Steel prices 2021 chart: Price of steel up 200%. When will the bubble pop? | Fortune

This is consistent with my previous post about the cost of raw materials increasing considerably since the start of the pandemic.
 
I do agree that the pandemic has hit all industries hard and everything now is more expensive. I do however seriously doubt we will ever see audiophile product prices adjust as the rest of the world starts to lower their prices.

Can you imagine audiophile manufactures sending out a price decrease notice!!!! I seriously doubt it. Hopefully down the line I will gladly like to be proven wrong.
 
Puma Cat said:
I just spoke to Norm at A/V Service today and in our conversation, he mentioned that since the pandemic hit, the price of steel has gone up considerably.

That statement is backed by this article which states the price of steel is up....200% in 2021.

Steel prices 2021 chart: Price of steel up 200%. When will the bubble pop? | Fortune

This is consistent with my previous post about the cost of raw materials increasing considerably since the start of the pandemic.
Click to expand...

I didn't think the A/V decouplers were made of steel.
Didn't Covid start in 2020?
 
Thanks for explaining the possible reasons behind the tripling pricing. But To be honest, I’m only an experienced audiophile, not a manufacturer, which means most of us have no basis to judge. My writing of the original post was meant to share with the company what an ordinary audiophile has experienced at this point in time. You could also judge to what extent my feelings are applicable to people who just started to know EVP two weeks or a month ago. My wish, if any, is helping the company to know there may be some negative feelings slowly growing (or may be not) no matter whether the triple markup is due to raw materials increase.

Ok here’s the key points that create unfavorable feelings :

1. I bought Dutch 8c Speaker last year. They have a 10% markup since three years. That was 2020. No further markup. Their speaker stands made of steel is sold at the same price. Yes they were behind production at certain points last year, but overall I didn’t have this “what? Doubled the price?”.

2. Other isolators including iso acoustics, or even Herbie Audio Labs, didn’t have sharp rise in price.

3. I certainly know every company is different. If a company really need triple the price for reasons pee customers will never know anyway, it’s a problem for this company. In our case, it’s because most audiophiles have feelings from 1 and 2 (mild price increase, seemingly using similar materials), but are now facing a firm tripling their price.

4. Some audiophiles also witnessed similar drastic price markup thing happened to certain brands in the past. This colored our interpretationS, even if these interpretations may be wrong to your company.

5. The story of the EVP in the internet has a “shape”. The YouTube layman approach videos, easy to understand test graphs, the passions in words, the “affordable” word of mouth, the magical discovery of a affordable superior products and so on - all converged to present a pre- triple-pricing image of the product. This company has passion for the ordinary customers. They and Herbie Audio Lab has some similarity but Av roomservices go further to provide more test result. More theories.

6. Honestly, i just want to share with you that ALL the above scenarios will create bad impressions at worst, wrong understanding of the company’s real difficulties and so on - the tripled pricing is in conflict with all the good narratives and company images still circulating in the internet. I don’t know the solution. But I have a feeling the contradictory feelings should somehow be developing, and will go on.

7. Of course if going upscaling the market is the original desirable goal, all the above is meaningless to decision makers or PR.

I guess I have said truly enough. I personally hope the price increase is really a temporary raw material pricing problem, and prices will be reverted to normal later. But if it doesn’t go that way, it won’t be the end of the world 😅
 
jadedavid said:
I didn't think the A/V decouplers were made of steel.
Didn't Covid start in 2020?
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The EVPs are two steel layers that sandwich a fiberglass layer. The wholesale price of steel has doubled in the last year; you can do the math from there.
 
Thank you for that clarification. I didn't know.
Yes, with that much steel involved I can see why he had to at least triple the cost.
 
I thought EVPs offered good value at $45. They priced themselves out of the market at $89 each. As commodity prices come back down, I guessing the $89 price will remain the same.
 
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