AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

[highstream]

Strange. In April, Norm explained the price increase to me as introductory price vs regular one. I purchased slightly blemished production, which kept the price as what it was.

 

[Puma Cat]

Bottom line is that for any product, prices always go up, they never go down. Doesn't matter what the industry is. Just look at the prices of used cars these days.

No one's arm is being twisted to buy any product.

It's up to each person to decide for themselves what constitutes a value proposition.

 

[highstream]

Your example of used car prices right now misses that new car prices are being pushed up by the shortage of computer chips, a direct result of the pandemic. In turn, that has pushed demand into the used car market, with the resulting rise in prices. The used car market, more than most, is affected by supply and demand. There’s no reason why prices won’t eventually come down once new car supply returns — and inflation stabilizes or comes down. The NY Times ran an article about it a couple of days ago: The Car Market '''Is Insane''': Dealers Can'''t Keep Up With Demand - The New York Times

 

[Puma Cat]

Your example of used car prices right now misses that new car prices are being pushed up by the shortage of computer chips, a direct result of the pandemic. In turn, that has pushed demand into the used car market, with the resulting rise in prices. The used car market, more than most, is affected by supply and demand. There’s no reason why prices won’t eventually come down once new car supply returns — and inflation stabilizes or comes down. The NY Times ran an article about it a couple of days ago: The Car Market '''Is Insane''': Dealers Can'''t Keep Up With Demand - The New York Times

The bottom line is that car prices, durable goods, whatever, over the long term, only go up in price over time, never down. Same for audio products. Look at the price of the Linn Sondek compared to its price in 1980.

 

[u-sound]

we are stuck in raising compexity it never gets simple again...

 

[highstream]

@PumaCat Spoken like someone who’s only lived through good times in a country where printing money, i.e., intentional inflation, is national policy. At best, it’s a circular argument. At worst, it doesn’t account for recessions and depressions and other seriously slack periods, where even if nominal prices remain the same or even increase, discounts, sales, rebates and package offers lower real prices.

 

[Jim Smith]

The bottom line is that car prices, durable goods, whatever, over the long term, only go up in price over time, never down. Same for audio products. Look at the price of the Linn Sondek compared to its price in 1980.

I remember back then, as my shop - Audition in Bhm., AL. - was one of Linn's Top 10 dealers - according to Ivor Tiefenbrun...

It was only $795 (!), and, IMO - the best at any price until the Goldmund Studio - at a much higher price - came along a few years later...

 

[a.wayne]

An LP-12 is a great table and can be modified to even greater heights ..


Regards

 

[chacha7]

The first attempt to explain the price increase was based on the price inflations of 'steel', but this contradicts with another explanation of "everthing's price go up, in the long run'.

The second explanation explains every markup in the 'private market'. Resorting to the 'raw material' explanation is actually not necessarily anymore. Forget this according to this 'market' explanation. By the same token, please also forget 'introductory price' vs. 'regular price' explanation. (no one knows the real reason anyway).

Simply put, in a private market, it's always supply and demand that determines the price. I increase and increase and increase the price up to a point that the overall profit drops consistently. Then the price may go down to attract more customers back.

But I just noted the company owner didn't say anything (probably a wise decision), and it's just one member constantly defending the price increase with different theories with intense enthusiasm - is he working for the company? Well, in fact, it doesn't matter.

Before learning of the tripled prices, I was just thinking that affordable isolators with excellent performance could be sold to many more audiophiles in the world and may make even more profits than selling less expensive units to a smaller group of consumers. I *thought* it's a new way of doing business.

But if tripling or further price increase (as 'everything's price will increase in the long run) is the company's business strategies, please go ahead. If the 'price increase' decision is based on some serious consideration on the new projected profit outcome, and if it can be achieved, that's very good for the firm (not necessarily for those audiophiles who can't afford them - but doing so maximize profits according to the plan). Yet for the same inflated price range, there're many equally persuasive competitors like Symposium, Finite Elemente, Harmonix, Townshend, Weizhi (more famous in Asia) and the list is almost endless. Wish you every success in this situation indeed.

BTW, I am using Linn LP12 from the 1980s. Not a lot of vintage gears stay in the market with strong or even higher resale value. For solid state amp - most are out of spec. Of course some don't care about spec. But most vintage gears are not Linn. Still LP12 is very special (and not Linn's speakers, let alone Linn's digital products), which seems not to be suitable for comparison with the case here, unless you seriously believe EVP could follow Linn' LP12s path.

Lastly, I still like EVP as a product. It pose challenges to existing way of doing isolations, and may stimulate more creative design of other companies. But I am looking for something else for fun.

PS: I remember that there may be only a handful of studies that examine the effects of different materials on isolating the speakers from different speaker stands, one of which is by Stereophile's John Atkinson dated back into 199x. That article has successfully popularized Blu-Tac in audiophile communities for almost a decade (and in fact still useful if you don't want to buy expensive isolators), as a few other 'special' acoustics isolators perform less impressive than Blu-Tac. Putting aside the older technology, no more studies like this are available. Bob Katz compared EVP to, a piece of wood. It's not comparing a wide range of isolators with a controlled environment like what John Atkinson did. Simply put, everyone says they are the best. Forum discussion about which one is the best is leading nowhere unless you tried them all and have sophisticated accelerometer and testing tools, since in reality your unique listening environment and unique gears could interact with different isolators in a very complex manner. Why there isn't any serious tests anymore? I see this happening in the area of speaker measurements, and this help a lot. So good luck with all of our search for isolators.

 

[Puma Cat]

The first attempt to explain the price increase was based on the price inflations of 'steel', but this contradicts with another explanation of "everthing's price go up, in the long run'.

The second explanation explains every markup in the 'private market'. Resorting to the 'raw material' explanation is actually not necessarily anymore. Forget this according to this 'market' explanation. By the same token, please also forget 'introductory price' vs. 'regular price' explanation. (no one knows the real reason anyway).

Simply put, in a private market, it's always supply and demand that determines the price. I increase and increase and increase the price up to a point that the overall profit drops consistently. Then the price may go down to attract more customers back.

But I just noted the company owner didn't say anything (probably a wise decision), and it's just one member constantly defending the price increase with different theories with intense enthusiasm - is he working for the company? Well, in fact, it doesn't matter.

if you're referring to me, I don't work for A/V Roomservice. I've bought their products at their prices current at the time, just like anyone else.

Furthermore, I'm not defending anything with respect to price increases with enthusiasm, I'm just stating facts.

Here are the facts: EVPs work very effectively with respect to their design brief, and their price is $89.

Folks can decide for themselves if that constitutes a value proposition or not.

As mentioned before, no one's arm is being twisted here to buy anything.

 

[u-sound]

these were sold cheap to find a place in the market.
now, etablished, they follow normal concept. not overpriced i think.

hey, if you do mind the price, these are very easy to fabricate yourself.
you might even pimp them with higher grade rubber.

 

[Puma Cat]

these were sold cheap to find a place in the market.
now, etablished, they follow normal concept. not overpriced i think.

hey, if you do mind the price, these are very easy to fabricate yourself.
you might even pimp them with higher grade rubber.

There is almost always more than one way to mediate a transfer function. This is one of the underlying principles of TRIZ.

 

[u-sound]

hmm, got to study about TRIZ before i can discuss about with you
btw, where do you think thouse avp work best? speaker/subwoofer or rather electronics?

more than this, how consistent are the results with various models?

 

[Puma Cat]

hmm, got to study about TRIZ before i can discuss about with you
btw, where do you think thouse avp work best? speaker/subwoofer or rather electronics?

more than this, how consistent are the results with various models?

A great introduction to TRIZ is the book, And Suddenly, the Inventor Appeared by Geinrich Altschuler.

A great place to start with EVPs is under a subwoofer.

 

[Hounddog]

A great introduction to TRIZ is the book, And Suddenly, the Inventor Appeared by Geinrich Altschuler.

A great place to start with EVPs is under a subwoofer.

Ditto on that. I started with them under the subwoofers and just loved it.

 

[highstream]

While subs are not a bad place to start, I’ve found them about equally helpful under everything, especially everything that’s on the floor (speakers) and bottom shelf. Four are usually better than three for components, and anything over 15 lbs or so do better with HD, the site’s table aside. Perhaps a very solid floor might be an exception to that. I would say though that given the price rise, Gaia’s might be more price effective for lighter or mid weight speakers (they haven’t gone up in price). I may check out the II under 78 lb actives soon, although 4 x 2” EVPs seem as good under them as 68 pounders so far. Just also give the Gaia a lot of weight leeway on their upper end spec, at least 10% and perhaps as much as 20% or so, to be sure (e.g., Gaia II for a 55 lb speaker, vs. the Gaia I spec of up to 72 lbs).

 

[FRO]

Since no one has posted any application pics, here are the EVP's under my REL 212SE sub.
Love them!

 

[highstream]

Here's a couple more close up. The Oppo ones are LD, and note that the (68 lb) speaker front right one (HD) has a neoprene washer on top for leveling and looks displaced a bit about halfway up. They do that, without losing effectiveness. Best to locate the speakers first, then place them underneath, but in tweaking a speaker's position that's not possible. Perhaps the 4" would be more resilient, but they were and remain a lot more money.

 

[Hounddog]

Here are the EVPs under a Symposium stand with the REL 212s on top of that. Better bass, way less transfer to the room structure. Works well for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Ritmo]

I’ve been considering them for placement under my new subs. At $189 ea for the 4” product (I need 8) I’m likely to pursue a different solution. Maybe I’ll give the ISO Acosutics ISO-Pucks or the Orea Bourdeax a try.