Ortofon Cadenza Black to MC Per Winfield

Petro85

Petro85

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Going one more step up in the Ortofon lineup. Ive run a cadenza black for about a year now.
This is kind of hard for me to write because i often said on this forum id run my black until the wheels fall off. Well the wheels didnt fall off , i just came upon an offer i couldnt refuse. i completely loved the black and still do, its value of all the cartridge i heard (and i heard most) in that price range was second to none.
well i been running the Per Winfield for a decent amount of hours now, and have a feel for it. and the differences are subtle but when you add them all up its a big difference. when i upgraded from the cadenza blue to the black i went a couple months without a turntable so i really didnt have it fresh in my mind to compare properly. you must also take these observations with a grain of salt, since there is a $1300 difference in the retail price.
i dont have the specs on hand for both cartridges but im guessing the winfield is a bit lower of an output because im having to put the volume up more to get to my normal listening level than before.
which is even more taxing running 12.5 watts into just 90db's making me really need to get into a new pair of speakers. soon.
first thing i noticed was the depth of the soundstage was better, deeper and could actually feel the drums behind the singer. or when the horns and bass players were standing on the same side who is in front and who is in back. the bass is defintely a hair deeper and fuller. it was a little loose at first but tightened up quickly. i remember the black taking a little longer. the settings on my phonostage changed from the best sounding with the black was +32db/x40 to +28db/x26 for the winfield. which is just one click difference. which might also account for the volume change.
the overall imaging is definitely better and the instruments are a little sweeter. Voices are a little more separated than before.
i noticed a few sounds popping out here and there than i had not noticed before. big difference for me is the singer is dead center and a little bit higher. i always though my speakers werent quite pointing in the right spots cause the singer was short, now its more lifelike and right where i think it should be. strings being plucked are definitely a little more pronounced. everything seems to be a little more separated and in their correct spots and without giving up any of the sweetness for too much accuracy. my favorite part of 300b amps is the air around everything and how musical they are. this cartridge seems to be a great match for that, adding to my 300b SET nirvana that ive been loving for awhile now.
Overall this cartridge seems to have a little bit of all the other cartridges in the ortofon line that ive heard. it has a little of the warmth and smoothness of the bronze. a lot of the accuracy and overall tone of the black, and a little of the soul and the richness of the mc anna. of course im not comparing it to the anna but it has some of its dna in it for sure. id say its a great investment and a worthy upgrade. maybe ill run this one until the wheels fall off. its definitely possible.
great $$ to sound ratio. as all my experiences with ortofon have been. what a great company.
 
Great write up Steve. Congrats on the new cart!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Nice review Steve - have you had the chance to listen to the Cadenza Bronze and how would you say the Windfeld compares?

Shodhan
 
thanks Mike and Shodhan.

yes i heard the bronze a bunch, my friend close by has one. a dealer i spent alot of time at has a house one ive heard on several tables. you really cant go wrong in the entire cadenza lineup no matter what your budget. the winfield is alot better but its apples to oranges being just about twice the price. but i really could live with any of this cartridge line. they are all good.
 
Sounds like a keeper. Glad you're happy with the new cart. All that's missing are a couple of pics.

Sent from my HTC One.
 
Steve - Congrats on the upgrade and thanks for sharing your detailed impressions. Keep trackin' those grooves with Ortofon! They're exceptional performers and tremendous values compared to many of today's cartridges with such inflated prices.
 
Nice description Steve. Thanks for sharing. Congrats on the sweet step up the chain!
 
thanks guys , i dont call this a review, just some observations, and i still have to finish this breaking in process. imo no matter what the manufacturer says, all my ortofons seemed to sound their best at the 80-100 hour mark and im far from it. but all in all i am thrilled and to get a more enjoyable sound out of a cartridge from here and from what ive heard it will cost quite a bit of money im not willing to spend..... yet at least :D
thanks again
 
Steve,

Thanks for the excellent write up. As you know, I have the Cadenza Black and I've been wondering how the PW improves upon the CB. I'm filing this thread away for future reference... just in case I don't jump up to the Anna!:)
 
Steve, with all these fancy cartridges you've been using I sure hope you're not turning into another one of these elitist Audiophile snobs.
:P
 
dlb2 said:
Steve, with all these fancy cartridges you've been using I sure hope you're not turning into another one of these elitist Audiophile snobs.
:P
Click to expand...


Ha!. Thanks Steve, all the info on carts is what I'm looking for at the mo!
 
dlb2 said:
Steve, with all these fancy cartridges you've been using I sure hope you're not turning into another one of these elitist Audiophile snobs.
:P
Click to expand...
well as i sit and listen to this recording i hear all 6 pieces of spit hit the microphone and i can feel his fingerprint rub across the guitar string and i heard him slide up 2 frets and oh my !! i think someone in the backround just farted. hahaha!!!! no that is not my listening style and definitely not 300b listening. even with wrongly matched speakers my system is musical and very easy on the ears. and would never ever want it to evolve into anything like that.


thanks Anthony when you wear out the black keep this cartridge in mind. im personally not ready to take a step up to the very heavy anna, financially or without a serious tonearm upgrade first. the winfield btw is a few grams heavier than the black and tracks a little heavier too, i think i was 2.3g with the black and im 2.6g with the winny.

Kev hear this cartridge before you dive into a pricey cartridge, ive heard the shelter harmony on a few occasions and the winfield is just as good if not a little more to my liking and less money. ortofons all seem to be a little better value for your dollar than other cartridges. thats why i keep buying them, this is my third in a row.
 
Can anybody comment on how the Bronze, Black, and MC Winfeld treat those less than stellar recordings? I am not talking about bad or worn pressings, but more those guilty pleasure albums. The ones where you love the music but know the recording is a little rough around the edges.

I'm looking at upgrading to one of the three. Will be used on a Rega P7 for 9-12 months then move to a TW Acustic Raven GT with Ortofon arm. I'm a little concerned about the Bronze and PW with replicant stylus given the Rega's limited VTA adjustment, but looking to get into one that will serve my immediate as well as future needs.
 
Since I only have first hand experience with the Cadenza Bronze, I can't really provide you with an answer to your question about they compare. I do find that the Bronze is by far the quietest cartridge tracking the groove that I've ever owned, and that includes making many pops and clicks that I thought were inherent in some of my records virtually disappear in silence! You should also be aware that the Shibata stylus profile of the Cadenza Black is also a very narrow profile design that is still very critical of alignment in order to optimize its performance.
 
I think this kind of explains why higher priced cartridges seem to be quieter in the groove. The fine line, Shibata style diamond is truly a finicky pain in the butt to align properly, but once it is in place it rides lower in the groove, making better overall contact with the walls, and is therefore quieter than something that rides higher in the groove.
 
cogt3 said:
I'm looking at upgrading to one of the three. Will be used on a Rega P7 for 9-12 months then move to a TW Acustic Raven GT with Ortofon arm. I'm a little concerned about the Bronze and PW with replicant stylus given the Rega's limited VTA adjustment, but looking to get into one that will serve my immediate as well as future needs.
Click to expand...

Have you investigated these options :

Stacking multiple Rega adjustable arm height spacers (from Music Direct)

A Cardas tonearm rewire kit from Brit Audio in NC

It's transformed my P7 Ortofon Rondo Blue MC combo

I also used the Fremer endorsed digital microscope, the Fozgometer and Analogue productions setup disc

Best bang for the buck with my limited budget

I'd love to have a TW Acustic or AMG Viella and a Per Winfield combo

Hope this helps

Tom
SE MI
 
hoosiertom said:
Have you investigated these options :

Stacking multiple Rega adjustable arm height spacers (from Music Direct)

A Cardas tonearm rewire kit from Brit Audio in NC

It's transformed my P7 Ortofon Rondo Blue MC combo

I also used the Fremer endorsed digital microscope, the Fozgometer and Analogue productions setup disc

Best bang for the buck with my limited budget

I'd love to have a TW Acustic or AMG Viella and a Per Winfield combo

Hope this helps

Tom
SE MI
Click to expand...

So, my tonearm has been rewired from clips to RCAs. The owner of Discovery Cable lives locally and did the wiring. I currently use a 2mm spacer with my DV 20. Did you end up using 4mm's of spacers with the Rondo? Everywhere I searched 4mm seems to be the answer for a Ortofon cartridge on a rega tonearm/table. My only concern as others have said that the replicant and shibata stylus can be sensitive to alignment. I hope the 4mm spacer will be close enough VTA wise, should be. Fremer has said many time that you have to change the height of the pivot point about 2mm to change the SRA a degree.
 
cogt3 said:
So, my tonearm has been rewired from clips to RCAs. The owner of Discovery Cable lives locally and did the wiring. I currently use a 2mm spacer with my DV 20. Did you end up using 4mm's of spacers with the Rondo? Everywhere I searched 4mm seems to be the answer for a Ortofon cartridge on a rega tonearm/table. My only concern as others have said that the replicant and shibata stylus can be sensitive to alignment. I hope the 4mm spacer will be close enough VTA wise, should be. Fremer has said many time that you have to change the height of the pivot point about 2mm to change the SRA a degree.
Click to expand...

I think if you can find someone locally who has a Dino-Lite digital microscope that would be the 1st step... You must accurately MEASURE to see accurately what your SRA is... In my experience, the 4mm spacer is NOT enough.. Don't know if the Dino-Lite are still available, much less affordable, I bought mine quite a while ago...

Finding someone who is experienced with the Feickert Adjust + software is the best solution. Local dealers or analog setup guru nearby in Florida?? The only people that I know who are skilled with this software are Andre Jennings who reviews analog for the Absolute Sound and sets up JV's turntables.. (Andre states that the line contact patch on a Windfield and some of the other current Ortofons is located along the rear facet of the diamond shank) and Brian Walsh at Essential Audio... Both are located here in the balmy Midwest and both have posted on Audioshark.. Cartridge setup is essential to get the most out of your analog combo.. Doesn't Highwater Sound, the TW Acustic importer, often demo with Ortofons ??

Hope this helps..

Tom SE MI
 
hoosiertom said:
I think if you can find someone locally who has a Dino-Lite digital microscope that would be the 1st step... You must accurately MEASURE to see accurately what your SRA is... In my experience, the 4mm spacer is NOT enough.. Don't know if the Dino-Lite are still available, much less affordable, I bought mine quite a while ago...

Finding someone who is experienced with the Feickert Adjust + software is the best solution. Local dealers or analog setup guru nearby in Florida?? The only people that I know who are skilled with this software are Andre Jennings who reviews analog for the Absolute Sound and sets up JV's turntables.. (Andre states that the line contact patch on a Windfield and other current Ortofons is located along the rear facet of the diamond shank) and Brian Walsh at Essential Audio... Both are located here in the balmy Midwest and both have posted on Audioshark.. Cartridge setup is essential to get the most out of your analog combo.. Doesn't Highwater Sound, the TW Acustic importer, often demo with Ortofons ??

Hope this helps..

Tom SE MI
Click to expand...

I live in a small costal town in Florida, no real vinyl shops/dealers nearby. I have another local vinyl nut though to share the cost of set up items like the microscope, Feickert software, etc (plan on splitting cost on a KL audio cleaner, not something you need to use everyday)

Was planning on getting the Dino-lite and Feickert software package when I made the jump to the TW Acustic TT. Sounds like I should go ahead and invest in the Dino-lite now to insure i get the SRA dialed in regardless of which cartridge I settle on. Will hold on the Feickert till I have a tonearm/headshell with adjustable azimuth. I am pretty good with my hands so working through the set up does not bother me as along as I have the right tools.

Will defiantly talk to Jeff at Highwater before I order anything, esp since he will be doing the ordering. I have had the pleasure to visit his loft multiple times, he sold me my current speakers, amp, and preamp, which is kind of funny since I first met him when looking for the TW Acustic TT's. I was just looking for some outside input on the forgiveness of the Bronze, Black, and PW.
 
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