Your opinion on my weakest link.

If you are so inclined to do some upgrades to your already wonderful system (beautiful room by the way)...

1) Sell your current speakers and upgrade to whatever speakers gets you that extra resolution you're looking for.
2) Save some money for a couple of quality subwoofers to place in various locations to "tune the room" better, which with your already well treated room, a pair of properly placed and dialed in subwoofers will eliminate the "need" for DSP.
3) This is a free upgrade... Move your entire system off to one side of the room. If it were me, I'd move the system to the right wall alone side your listening seat since that wall has no protrusions other than the pillar towards the back of the room. Leave the amplifier up front between the speakers. Well I said free, but you will have to purchase some long XLR cables to run from your preamp to the amp up front, but that's it.
 
Hear Here said:
I'm of a slightly different persuasion than others in unreservedly praising your room! I just hate the sight of "room treatment" panels, though I presume your room is dedicated solely to music. That possibly excuses them! I try to look at whatever other means are necessary to achieve best sound without resorting to panels, or more importantly "room correction DSP" - or for that matter, subs!
Choosing the right TYPE of speaker to suit the room in No 1 consideration in my book. . Peter
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Hi Peter.
I appreciate your opinion on the room treatment and agree that speaker integration to the room is no 1 priority.
In my case, the speakers were purchased before the room was built. The reflection, adsorption, dispersion was an attempt to quiet the room and play nice with speakers. Even still, I have problem issues that still exist. I suspect DSP would be best at correcting them, maybe even allow me to remove some of the panels.
That said, I, like you would rather try and find a solution which doesn't alter the original recording. It may not be possible within my budget. Or maybe it will. The adventure continues.
 
Dizzie said:
Some have mentioned getting a better streamer. Would the streamer function of an Aurender be an improvement over what is being used now? If so that would also add a storage/server component to the system. :dunno:
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Dizzie, excellent question. My G1 cost me under 3 grand. Aurender N200 is at least double that. If I upgrade to the aurender N200 and replace the MSB Analog dac with the Bricasti M21 - which I've heard and like, paired to the aurender, that is a good combo.
 
chops said:
Move your entire system off to one side of the room. If it were me, I'd move the system to the right wall alone side your listening seat since that wall has no protrusions other than the pillar towards the back of the room. Leave the amplifier up front between the speakers. Well I said free, but you will have to purchase some long XLR cables to run from your preamp to the amp up front, but that's it.
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The room is only 13ft wide. Thats a really near, nearfield listening position. No?
 
Panels look fine; its a nice room.
Better than DSP, IMO. DSP may be the final touch for low freqs that are harder to treat. Speaker placement will mater there also.
 
The Bodiezaffa said:
Hi Peter.
I suspect DSP would be best at correcting them, maybe even allow me to remove some of the panels. The adventure continues.
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My experience with all 3 of the "room correction DSP" systems I've used that are built into full-range amps is that all this extra Signal Processing does no favours to the top end, despite the fact that this top end isn't ADJUSTED. The trouble is (in my opinion) that the entire signal has to pass through the processor and a little of the "goose-bump" factor is lost because of this complex processor. The precious signal cannot avoid the DSP if applied to a full-range amp.

In an active syatem with amps for each range of frequencies, DSP can be applied solely to the bass amp, while the mid and top reaches their amps totally unmolested by DSP. My Avantgarde Duo XD speakers allow this as they have DSP built into their bass amps. If I engage a Dirac Live filter in my main amp, a little of the magic is lost, even though the bass may be a little flatter. Therefore I leave Dirac Live with No Filter but I do my best (not very well) to set the Avantgarde's XD software for best bass response.

I found exactly the same problem with RoomPrefect in Lyngdorf amp and MARS in Micromega amp.

The acoustic of my 945 sq ft semi-circular room with floor-to-ceiling glazing on the curved wall was predictably dire when I first moved here, but addition of 30% carpetting, curtains (never closed) and more soft furnishings, plus very careful speaker placement and setup have improved matters such that I'm happy with no DSP and no artificial room treatment.

Good luck with your adventure.
 
I would want the best source (server/streamer) I could afford. Nothing after that in the chain can make up for deficiencies there. An uber-expensive DAC can't fix what is already broken. Etc all the way down the line.

FWIW, I hate box speakers. I think they are coffins where music gets buried. New speakers could easily make the biggest impact.
 
The Bodiezaffa said:
The room is only 13ft wide. Thats a really near, nearfield listening position. No?
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Move the equipment rack to the side wall, not the speakers and amp. Keep the speakers where they are.

Also, leave DSP as a last resort. If you still have acoustic issues, try tweaking loudspeaker/listening position more, even adjusting/swapping positions of the panels in the room.
 
Dizzie said:
I would want the best source (server/streamer) I could afford. Nothing after that in the chain can make up for deficiencies there. An uber-expensive DAC can't fix what is already broken. Etc all the way down the line.
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Interesting as others will say that, as long as the signal remains in the digital domain, it works or it doesn't work. There is no control over its "quality". Though I argue against that view to a point, the fact remains that if digital wasn't 100% reliable at carrying a stream of 1s and 0s, then your printer wouldn't print precisely what's on your PC screen. It is always 100% accurate. Likewise. as long as the stream from Qobuz or whoever is carried right through to the DAC's input socket, there is no opportunity for it to suffer any ill effects - it works or it doesn't work. Jitter is arguably the only enemy of digital that needs control in audio, whereas it doesn't in other digital transmission scenarios.

By contrast the analogue side of things, particularly the DAC is subject to all sorts of interference and other factors that could (and does) deteriorate the signal. The less processing of the signal the better and the greater care of the signal to protect it from anything that may cause poorer end results at the speaker the better.
 
Boy, some would say you have a lot to learn about digital.
Hear Here said:
Interesting as others will say that, as long as the signal remains in the digital domain, it works or it doesn't work. There is no control over its "quality". Though I argue against that view to a point, the fact remains that if digital wasn't 100% reliable at carrying a stream of 1s and 0s, then your printer wouldn't print precisely what's on your PC screen. It is always 100% accurate. Likewise. as long as the stream from Qobuz or whoever is carried right through to the DAC's input socket, there is no opportunity for it to suffer any ill effects - it works or it doesn't work. Jitter is arguably the only enemy of digital that needs control in audio, whereas it doesn't in other digital transmission scenarios.

By contrast the analogue side of things, particularly the DAC is subject to all sorts of interference and other factors that could (and does) deteriorate the signal. The less processing of the signal the better and the greater care of the signal to protect it from anything that may cause poorer end results at the speaker the better.
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A whole list, sorry mate you have nice stuff by the way, but improvements are possible

- source was mentioned before
- an audiophile network switch is missing with separate lineair power supply
- the dac could have a better lineair power supply
- I donÂ’t know how the dac is hooked, but if it is USB an extra USB isolator can be added
- do the speakers have antivibration stands? All stuff clear up if you place it on antivibration stands
- this one had an enormous impact on my set: power everything on a separate group on your fuse box and take an audiophilic fuse
- take better powercables on everything
 
Alkyogre said:
The OP didn’t mention PS audio. Can be me, but I don’t know what you mean with 20 amp lines with PS audio outlets.
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Oh really?

This is from Post #7 of this thread by the OP...

"Thanks for noticing the room. Its my daily escape pod and destress room. I used products from Kinetics (in Canada) which allowed me to decouple the room from the house joists and eliminate sound from travelling through the vents. I purposely chose sconces instead of pot lights to avoid cutting holes in the ceiling. Double drywall 1inch thick with space and insolation between to capture soundwaves. I have 8 dedicated 20amp outlets using PS Audio hospital grade receptacles. I could have done more but my wife (who knows me too well) insisted on keeping the books and my budget within tolerable limits.

Pivoting back to cables...
So Shunyata, eh? (Damn)
I've got your cell #. Ill reach out to chat further."
 
It feels like people who ask the "weak link" question either have an obvious weak link, or have a beautiful & well balanced system like yours - lol! Speaker choice and speaker / amp matching are huge - but based on personal preference. Sometimes it just takes iterations & trials to know if you've settled on the right match, but if you absolutely love what you've got now then it's safer to stick with it.

That is a lot of acoustic treatments, with no other furnishings. It it were me, I'd at least try it with a bit less treatment and a bit more cozy / inviting / hybrid of a space though I can't prescribe what that might look like for you, given this is a 100% dedicated audio room. I like a couch, rug, and shelves with vinyl LPs for starters. Maybe some other decorations or visual points of interest. The mindset I gain from feeling "relaxed at home" helps the audio experience as much as anything.

On power conditioning: when I added a Niagara 7000 to the big rig - I didn't feel it took my sound forward, though I stick with it for the protection. In my smaller rig I tried a Niagara 3000 and thought it actually hurt the sound a little, versus a dirt cheap Furman strip. I've also tried a PS Audio P12 with little if any gain, though the UI was super cool. Ugh. Maybe I have good power? Good power cords on the amps (AQ Hurricanes, or even NRG-1000's on a budget) DOES make a nice difference, though.

Agree with the usual chorus of "vinyl source". At least find out if you like it. I loved it - it's the only source for me :)
 
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