Yes Virginia, there is a difference in Streaming Transports!

[Mr Peabody]

This piggybacks off another thread I started but I want to focus on just the streaming transports. There is an amazing number of audio enthusiasts who believe all transports are basically the same. Referring to digital output. The term "bit perfect" is misused and misunderstood. Bit Perfect doesn't mean there's no difference. The bits can be bits but it's the delivery that differs.

Don't be offended just have an open mind because amongst you if I'm referring to you is a reviewer who has top B&W speakers with top Pass electronics who uses a Bluesound Node into a top DAC. That reviewer is disqualified in my book. I also started another thread expressing disappointment that Peachtree Audio would tell their customers they don't need anything more than a Wiim. This tells me either they have a super DAC that re-clocks and makes digital perfect from noise, jitter and timing errors or their gear isn't worth anything better, or maybe a marketing ploy. I certainly understand the confusion consumers may have.

A system should be balanced so there certainly is a place for Wiim, Node and the like. However better electronics your system will certainly benefit from a better streamer.

The heart of any component regardless is the power supply. If your streamer is the size of a box of Girl Scout cookies and plastic there's only so much you can have for a power supply and noise isolation. Many of these units use wall warts.

I personally have experience with HEOS, Node, NAD Master, a streamer in my N05xd and my ACS10. I have also researched the topic although I am not a tech. I know there is a difference, I've heard it. You don't have to believe me I just encourage you to try for yourself. As mentioned above better units have better isolation from noise and noise reduction, jitter control, reduction, correction of timing errors, some better units even do clocking, I already mentioned power supplies. All of this provides better sound quality.

Many retailers allow a return policy or may lend you something to try. If you have a good DAC already you should be looking at the Lumin U series or similar, meaning a dedicated streamer absent of a DAC you won't use and causes compromises in the overall product.. If you want streaming to be on par with other sources you have to be willing to invest similarly. Compromises, I mean sharing a chassis, power supply and needing additional isolation from noises. It just depends on what you need.

The reviewer system I mentioned above is not balanced, The Node is a good value product but when you are using a high quality DAC into Pass then it's worth trying a comparable streamer to the mentioned gear.

 

[Mechnutt]

I just bought a WiiM ultra streamer for my daughter and it works great and has good sound quality. It gets even better if your run it into your main dac. The UI is fabulous as is the phono amp. The built in equalizer in the phono app works great. We tried it in my sons system before I mailed it out to my daughter. I stream from my custom computer that I built as a music server via usb, using a JCat Femto usb card, external LPS and Audirvana Studio. I can't really see streaming sounding better. I am sure that it can though.

For the price you cannot beat it. I am sure there are a lot better streamers but the sound quality here is good and the user interface is just awesome as is the price. A friend of mine has a Lumin D3 and it has nothing over the WiiM Ultra. I bought it as an open box from WiiM for $239. It normally sells for over $300. The WiiM ultra is not plastic. The WiiM Pro is and it is a lot cheaper in price and has a lesser built in dac.

However, I get what you are saying Bryan. There are a lot of guys over on the SHF that think Bits are Bits and all dacs, music players sound the same because bits are bits.

 

[Mr Peabody]

I just bought a WiiM ultra streamer for my daughter and it works great and has good sound quality. It gets even better if your run it into your main dac. The UI is fabulous as is the phono amp. The built in equalizer in the phono app works great. We tried it in my sons system before I mailed it out to my daughter. I stream from my custom computer that I built as a music server via usb, using a JCat Femto usb card, external LPS and Audirvana Studio. I can't really see streaming sounding better. I am sure that it can though.

For the price you cannot beat it. I am sure there are a lot better streamers but the sound quality here is good and the user interface is just awesome as is the price. A friend of mine has a Lumin D3 and it has nothing over the WiiM Ultra. I bought it as an open box from WiiM for $239. It normally sells for over $300. The WiiM ultra is not plastic. The WiiM Pro is and it is a lot cheaper in price and has a lesser built in dac.

However, I get what you are saying Bryan. There are a lot of guys over on the SHF that think Bits are Bits and all dacs, music players sound the same because bits are bits.

I'm not sure what you mean by the D3 has nothing over the Wiim Ultra. Side by side the D3 should be noticeably better in sound quality. Even if just using the digital out and the D3 DAC would be superior. What does your son use to stream? To say the D3 has nothing a side by side would need to be done.

I've only had my hands on the Wiim Mini. I won it. I tried it for fun through my X-Can headphone amp. The app sucked on my iPhone, the EQ settings seemed gimmicky not making any substantial difference. I gave it to my granddaughter to use with a Yamaha receiver and it works fine for that purpose. I personally would rather use a set of BT headphones on my phone.

I know people who still use computers but it's a fact that there's no way to close all unnecessary programs and they are still noisy. You can't imagine better until you hear it. I have no idea what you'd have to spend to best your computer. A friend used a computer until his friend lent him an Auralic G1. The difference was so good my friend quit the computer and bought the G2. He read all the articles and thought he took all the steps to make his computer sound great. As a side note Auralic is out of business.

The Wiim Ultra is a jack knife of streaming for cheap. I get people love it. I still maintain it has no place in an actual higher end system where sound quality counts. Where that point of counting is I don't know it's up to the user and their ears, what's important to them. It's no different than using an Audio Technika turntable on a high end system. Those inexpensive tables have a place but not in a high end system.

The NAD M50.2 was much better than the Node or HEOS. The ACS10 was even a larger difference to my ears than even the M50.2. If someone cares they just have to experiment for themselves. It took the ACS10 to satisfy me. I couldn't use the prior streamers on a permanent basis.

Streaming is my main source so it's important to me it sounds good. If just background or back yard music for someone I can see why they might not care. If someone cares then it's worth the listen comparison. Often times people will reach for these cheap streamers to get their feet wet in streaming and that sound is all they know. And they are being told there's no better. That's BS.

It blows my mind that people will accept good, better, best in almost every area of goods yet for some reason we are being told it doesn't apply to audio.

 

[Mechnutt]

I haven't found the Lumin D3 to sound better than the WiiM ultra. It should. The Wiim mini is not anything like the Ultra. Even the wiiM pro plus is not as good as the WiiM Ultra. I am not saying the Ultra is the be all and end all of streamers but it is very good and the UI is fabulous. I found the D3 to be a little bright sounding and that was through my friends Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III tube amp.

The way to use the WiiM is though your DAC. The built in Sabre DAC is good but it sounds better through a good dac.

My son streams with a system like mine. He has a custom hand built computer using a Jcat usb card that is powered externally via a good LPS. His music player is Audirvana Studio and Tidal runs through it. His DAC is a Chord Qutest that is also powered by a good LPS which takes the sound of this dac up a notch or two. The WiiM Ultra by itself was almost as good sounding.

I would have to hear a high end streamer in my system to see if it is better than our custom computers that were built for audio with higher end MOBO's, low ripple power supply, no graphics cards to create unwanted noise, shielded cables and the JCat usb cards powered by external LPS's. The JCat cards with LPS's are the real game changers for computer audio. I can't stress how much they improved the sound coming from the computers. Especially the newer Femto card vs the older card that my son is using. The LPS was the icing on the cake. By the way, our computers if sold as audio computers would cost thousands of dollars.

Have you heard a WiiM ultra through a good DAC?

For me, I do not see the benefit of a high end streamer as streaming is not my main focus. Vinyl is now that I upgraded my whole analog gear and I already have 9 TB's of music on a mixture of M.2 drives, SSD's and Western Digital Red drives all backed up on an external drive.

 

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't found the Lumin D3 to sound better than the WiiM ultra. It should. The Wiim mini is not anything like the Ultra. Even the wiiM pro plus is not as good as the WiiM Ultra. I am not saying the Ultra is the be all and end all of streamers but it is very good and the UI is fabulous. I found the D3 to be a little bright sounding and that was through my friends Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III tube amp.

The way to use the WiiM is though your DAC. The built in Sabre DAC is good but it sounds better through a good dac.

My son streams with a system like mine. He has a custom hand built computer using a Jcat usb card that is powered externally via a good LPS. His music player is Audirvana Studio and Tidal runs through it. His DAC is a Chord Qutest that is also powered by a good LPS which takes the sound of this dac up a notch or two. The WiiM Ultra by itself was almost as good sounding.

I would have to hear a high end streamer in my system to see if it is better than our custom computers that were built for audio with higher end MOBO's, low ripple power supply, no graphics cards to create unwanted noise, shielded cables and the JCat usb cards powered by external LPS's. The JCat cards with LPS's are the real game changers for computer audio. I can't stress how much they improved the sound coming from the computers. Especially the newer Femto card vs the older card that my son is using. The LPS was the icing on the cake. By the way, our computers if sold as audio computers would cost thousands of dollars.

Have you heard a WiiM ultra through a good DAC?

For me, I do not see the benefit of a high end streamer as streaming is not my main focus. Vinyl is now that I upgraded my whole analog gear and I already have 9 TB's of music on a mixture of M.2 drives, SSD's and Western Digital Red drives all backed up on an external drive.

I have not heard the Ultra personally. Some who have compared the Ultra and Node claim the Node is slightly better in SQ but prefer the feature set of the Ultra. Using the digital out and DSP I would imagine the Ultra to be reasonably good to a point.