X1, Love it but frustrated!

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Wraith.

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Joined
Nov 20, 2019
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Seattle
So first let me say, I love the sound quality of the X1. I had the TT2 and M.Scaler out of a Innuos Zenith and to my ears the X1 sounds better. HOWEVER, I was told on this forum and others that I could feed 2 JL's using the unbalanced outs while using XLR's to feed the amp/speakers. When I attempted to do this the output from the feedback loop far exceeded any base response (if there was any). I assumed that It was a grounding issue but to be sure I contacted Lumin CS and was told that the X1 is not designed to be run this way and thus it wouldn't work.

As a result I sold the JL's and have been searching for a more full range speaker than my Raidho XT-1's. BUT now Absolute Sound printed this review ( https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/lumin-x1-streamerdacpreamp/ ) using the exact same setup that Lumin told me wouldn't work. It would be so much easier to purchase new subs than new speakers but I've written to Lumin multiple times asking for clarification but have received nothing is response. Feels like they gave me bad advice and now they are avoiding me.


Anyone else using a Lumin to feed subs?
 
Congratulations with your " new " Lumin X1 , i just had the thought that it might be worth trying to contact theabsolutesound.com and get their take on how they got it to work !
Otherwise i am sure Lumin will give an answer here.
 
Wraith. said:
When I attempted to do this the output from the feedback loop far exceeded any base response (if there was any). I assumed that It was a grounding issue but to be sure I contacted Lumin CS and was told that the X1 is not designed to be run this way and thus it wouldn't work.
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While I have not attempted this, I'll take a stab at answering your question:

Could you clarify what you mean by "the output from the feedback loop far exceeded any [bass] response"? I don't see how you created a feedback loop. My guess would be you had mismatched amplifier gain—you need to match the subwoofer amplifier gain to the speaker amplifier gain using an SPL meter and proper test tones, take out any preamp, and need to use the X1 volume control.

That being said, it does match my understanding that because of the output transformer and parallel connection to the XLR and RCA output jacks, and the potential of XLR cold being tied to RCA ground if an RCA connection is attached (I am not sure of this—it is just a possibility), the design is intended for use with only one set of outputs at a time. It can work if the conditions are right, and may not degrade the sound quality if the conditions are right, but the conditions have to be right.
 
By feedback loop (assuming Lumin gave me a correct diagnosis) I mean a very loud audible hum coming out of the speakers and the subs. As a matter of fact all I had to do was get close to the RCA output and it would hum. If I actually touched it with my finger I'd get the noise equivalent of plugging the subs in. That makes me think it's wasn't the subs but a design issue with running both balance and unbalanced outputs at the same time. So when Lumin told me it wasn't designed to do this I immediately sold the subs.... Something I'm regretting now.

I spoke to the author of the AS review, he said it worked right out of the box, he didn't have to set anything.
 
Well, that's a possibility but I don't have the subs anymore and I'd prefer it was straight out from the X1, just need know definitively if it's possible.
 
Not having the conversation details you had with our staff on subwoofer, my speculation about a similar setup working for one environment but not the other might point to the possibility of a ground loop.

Anyway, if you still want to use a subwoofer, check out REL subwoofer with high-level input if you're not using a Class D amplifier. According to REL marketing materials this is actually better for speaker integration than low level inputs.

I also like to reconfirm that with X1 / S1 / A1 / T1 the analog XLR and the analog RCA connectors should not be connected simultaneously, as there will be a SQ degradation.

As far as I can remember, I and all our staff never said anything to the contrary on this particular Lumin forum or any other Lumin forum with my presence.
 
Wow, there it is, thank you. Doesn’t get anymore definitive than that. So in essence, Absolute Sound raves about the sound quality derived from the X1 and it was degraded the entire time....
 
After reading this thread I just reread the Absolute Sound review in the December 2019 issue. While slightly ambiguous, they don’t say that two inputs were simultaneously used. The two inputs were tested the first month. The detailed testing was done after that using only the XLR inputs.

BB225470-E6AB-42F9-9B66-890A0D15F1B4.jpeg
 
Wraith. said:
Wow, there it is, thank you. Doesn’t get anymore definitive than that. So in essence, Absolute Sound raves about the sound quality derived from the X1 and it was degraded the entire time....
Click to expand...

That's the Absolute Sound for you! Hard to believe the content written by most reviewers in that magazine. I do like Robert Greene's reviews.
 
Like Peter said if you want to put subs back in the mix all you need are a pair with speaker level inputs and even if by chance you were using a Class D amp there is a work around for that just like there is with some fully balanced amps. I prefer Rythmik F-12's but Rel and others make models that work and are a lot less costly than JL.
 
Wraith. said:
By feedback loop (assuming Lumin gave me a correct diagnosis) I mean a very loud audible hum coming out of the speakers and the subs. As a matter of fact all I had to do was get close to the RCA output and it would hum. If I actually touched it with my finger I'd get the noise equivalent of plugging the subs in.
Click to expand...
+1 to the possibility this is a ground loop issue. You can try to mitigate this by grounding all of the components together using some insulated copper wire (there is a "earth ground" pin on the back of the X1) or by playing around with how you have everything plugged in, but it won't do anything about the potential lower load impedance for running both outputs in parallel, or for the potential XLR cold pin <> RCA ground issue.

Also, when you said "equivalent of plugging the subs in" I'm not sure if that meant plugging the subwoofers into the AC power outlet or if it meant connecting both ends of the RCA cable between the X1 and the subwoofer. You do not want to leave any cables floating (i.e. unconnected on any end).
 
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