Wilson Maxx 2. vs. Magico S5 mk2

[Mike]

Mike
No my goal is that is sounds like I am hearing music played live. I am not sure where you are listening to live music but unless we are talking about "stadium" concerts most live venues I attend sound pretty darn good.

I disagree. Most sound awful. We do have an outdoor arena in Tampa, old Massey Hall in Toronto and a few others, which actually are pretty good, but Amalea arena and others around here suck. When you hear unamplified in a small intimate setting or a live orchestra, there is nothing better - and that, IMO, should be the benchmark.

YMMV.


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[still-one]

I disagree. Most sound awful. We do have an outdoor arena in Tampa, old Massey Hall in Toronto and a few others, which actually are pretty good, but Amalea arena and others around here suck. When you hear unamplified in a small intimate setting or a live orchestra, there is nothing better - and that, IMO, should be the benchmark.

YMMV.


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Most stereo systems can replicate those intimate un-amplified "concerts" consisting of guitars, cellos etc. The fewer the number of instruments the easier it is, pianos excluded. No stereo system comes close to replicating a orchestra. I want my system to sound like I am hearing Leonard Cohen, or Alison Krauss at the Fox Theater or Mary Chapin Carpenter at The Ark.

 

[mep]

If you love the sound of music played through a PA system, you might seriously consider getting a PA system to play back your music at home. My brother plays guitar and he has a house full of instruments, amplifiers, and a Peavey PA system. He hooks his R2R deck into his 1200 watt Peavey PA head and then into the Peavey PA speakers including the Peavey subs. It sounds like music you would expect to hear at a nightclub or a concert. It's a whole other sound and if you really like it, it's dirt cheap to buy. Plus, it will blow your ears off of your head which is what my brother likes. I could only listen to a few songs because the sound levels were way too high and that is not the sound I'm chasing. My brother was bummed because we didn't turn it up anywhere near the levels where he wanted to listen.

 

[a.wayne]

I disagree. Most sound awful. We do have an outdoor arena in Tampa, old Massey Hall in Toronto and a few others, which actually are pretty good, but Amalea arena and others around here suck. When you hear unamplified in a small intimate setting or a live orchestra, there is nothing better - and that, IMO, should be the benchmark.

YMMV.


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Have to be careful , a lot of Symphony Halls are using amplified PA also , but i do agree most live venues suck , but it can be done to enhance and when done right it's alive and well ..


BTW in the Past I have spent many hrs working in and around studios with live recordings and instruments. No Magico i have ever heard sounds like live music , your Horns come close to the jump and attack of live music, not the Magico's i have heard, so in this respect i agree with the WA vs Magico comment ,,the WA speakers do have better jump and attack like live Music over the Magico, but do suffer from a wonky mid Bass if not setup correctly, the Magico new M versions are more refined sounding and will offend less as its easier to setup, but easily less "live" sounding ...

My recent WA Alexia series2 listening session done by Peter M was a disaster in the Bass , but had fantastic size and jump on chorale and classical in general , hated it on anything else, IMO , he had the bass way out of wack and of course they would be easily embarrassed against your M on anything except classical, they are really good on Classical, most likely voiced that way ....



I would have to hear them again to see if it was adjustment/Room interaction or truly just bad bass ...

Regards ..

 

[Mr Peabody]

I'm assuming since some are arguing and agreeing, date matters, you are saying every time a company puts out a new speaker it's better than the one before it. Well, I don't agree with that, at all. Listening is subjective so there's no way "new is always better" is a hard fast rule. Surely, someone has an older model that is close to their heart and you wouldn't trade for the latest model?

One example for me personally, I happen to feel the Revel Performa 3 series done nothing to improve on the P2 series. It sounds very different to be sure but I personally prefer the P2 series.

 

[still-one]

I'm assuming since some are arguing and agreeing, date matters, you are saying every time a company puts out a new speaker it's better than the one before it. Well, I don't agree with that, at all. Listening is subjective so there's no way "new is always better" is a hard fast rule. Surely, someone has an older model that is close to their heart and you wouldn't trade for the latest model?

One example for me personally, I happen to feel the Revel Performa 3 series done nothing to improve on the P2 series. It sounds very different to be sure but I personally prefer the P2 series.

While I agree in general with your premise, in the case of the Maxx 2's the line has been dropped from the Wilson lineup. The Maxx 2 was replaced by the Maxx 3 which has been dropped altogether. Some might say the Alexx is the natural successor, if so it is a very different speaker.

 

[Sharp 2160]

While I agree in general with your premise, in the case of the Maxx 2's the line has been dropped from the Wilson lineup. The Maxx 2 was replaced by the Maxx 3 which has been dropped altogether. Some might say the Alexx is the natural successor, if so it is a very different speaker.

That is an understatement. They are definitely "different speakers". I was able to compare the Maxx 3 and Alexx in the same store. The Maxx 3 is a physically larger speaker. I like the older tweeter and midrange in the Maxx 3. The Alexx is being marketed as a version of what the WAMM would sound like if smaller. I would still take a pair of XLF Alexandria's over them both.

 

[a.wayne]

While I agree in general with your premise, in the case of the Maxx 2's the line has been dropped from the Wilson lineup. The Maxx 2 was replaced by the Maxx 3 which has been dropped altogether. Some might say the Alexx is the natural successor, if so it is a very different speaker.

Different Note ....

I notice WA no longer list nor give out info on their Legacy products, well i couldn't find anything on their website , big mistake not to do so, the history is very important ....


Regards

 

[metaphacts]

Different Note ....

I notice WA no longer list nor give out info on their Legacy products, well i couldn't find anything on their website , big mistake not to do so, the history is very important ....


Regards

Though the individual product pages are no longer up, manuals for our retired products are available for download on the website.

Wilson Audio's extensive collection of videos is linked on the website as well.

 

[LVB]

Always a surprise how such big speakers like the Alex or even the XLF (and I bet the WAMM as well) have such poor bass performance (I prefer the Sophia bass). The “jump” is cool, for about 10 sec... A good scapegoat; blaming poor set-up for poor design.

 

[RichardAusten]

I'm assuming since some are arguing and agreeing, date matters, you are saying every time a company puts out a new speaker it's better than the one before it. Well, I don't agree with that, at all. Listening is subjective so there's no way "new is always better" is a hard fast rule. Surely, someone has an older model that is close to their heart and you wouldn't trade for the latest model?

One example for me personally, I happen to feel the Revel Performa 3 series done nothing to improve on the P2 series. It sounds very different to be sure but I personally prefer the P2 series.

I would add the older Reference 3a Models sounded considerably better than the new ones with the BE tweeters as it seems they are responding to the "IN" tweeter but the character of the speaker has been lost now IMO. Further the Paradigm 100V2 was solid speaker and replaced by the 100V3. At that time they also brought out their Signature floorstander - but the 100V3 sounded pretty crappy versus the older model and crappy against the Sig. What I was told is that they needed more of a "spread" between 100V2 and the 4 times the price Sig and that the 100V2 was already 95% the sound.

A lot of folks were asking a dealer friend of mind who carries and still carries the brand and he too noted that the 100V2 was definitely the one to get. The 100V3 had an audible echo effect - it didn't seem to last long and a V4 and now I believe a V5 and V6 have come out.

Also some companies come out with an amp or speaker every 4 years due to what we refer to as the press cycle as well as product life-cycle. Big sales fro new products - a plateau and then the drop. New product - begin again - not necessarily any real reason. I had a Rotel preamp - 4 years later a new one comes out with a new name badge and different looking case - everything else is exactly the same.

And further to your point sometimes the best designer at the company leaves and the new product is made by an inferior talent. OR the company decides to sell their product to attract more customers and chooses something that looks cool at the expense of something that sounds good.

As for Magico and Wilson - I have had one good session with the Sophia II but have yet to like any of their big expensive speakers. Magico is the reverse - I enjoyed ond of their biggest most expensive speakers but didn't at all like their standmount and not for silly money they charged for it (approaching $30k). It's a lot of impressive engineering, a lot of money - I''m not convinced by the sound - and yes I can afford to pay cash for any Magico so it's not about that.

 

[enatai252]

I would add the older Reference 3a Models sounded considerably better than the new ones with the BE tweeters as it seems they are responding to the "IN" tweeter but the character of the speaker has been lost now IMO. .

+1

I have listened to and enjoyed a lot of different brands over the last 25 years in this hobby and the one constant I have found is that the BE tweeters drive me out of the room. YMMV. I know the BE tweeter specs look good on paper with the increased rigidity and extended frequency range but they do not sound natural to me and while running out of the room is a slight exaggeration, they do fatigue me quickly even when listening to my analog source. I speak from experience and was drawn in and purchased a pair of S5s but had to replace quickly after extended listening. There are clearly some who love these speakers and I expect they value different attributes than I did or they are partnered with different gear and likely provide a great listening experience so my opinion should not dissuade them. Each of us has our own bias and listening preference and speakers more than any other component are impacted by the room and electronic pairing. So its impossible to claim one absolute truth - just personal opinions. Some here can spend pages proclaiming why they are right - not sure why they spend so much time worrying that others prefer a different brand. If you are truly happy with your choice, than why worry....just listen to your brand and be happy.

WRT the OP - I think there are better examples from each of those brands available today. I suggest you can take some of the opinions offered in this thread but the best thing to do is go listen.

 

[Mechnutt]

I'm curious on the bass comments regarding Wilson. Most of my auditions have been with D'Agostino amplification and equally level digital sources. Bass is one area I find the Wilson, in general, lacking. The midrange seems always prominent.

1. Do today's Wilson compare to the Max is bass or did Wilson back off in that area?

2. Perhaps, though the two brands are typically together, maybe there's better synergy amplification for Wilson?

One demo was playing Patricia Barber's Modern Cool, an album I'm very familiar with and on all high end systems I've heard the album the bass reproduction is very good, on the Wilson/Agostino combo this album didn't sound that way. The bass was almost nonexistent When we left we all sort of agreed there must have been a problem, hard to guess as to what it could have been without knowing more about the system in that room.

I'm sincerely looking for Wilson user/dealer comments. I've never heard Wilson do much in bass. And, regarding live, they don't even come close to something like MBL. So if Wilson users are getting room shaking bass from timpani, how are you doing it?

Mr P, I heard the Wilson Alexia's at a local music shop with $50K worth of electronics. I was blown away by the deep powerful bass. Awesome sounding speaker, very musical. It does have a midbass hump however. The dealer said that they are purposely voiced that way.

 

[Sharp 2160]

Always a surprise how such big speakers like the Alex or even the XLF (and I bet the WAMM as well) have such poor bass performance (I prefer the Sophia bass). The “jump” is cool, for about 10 sec... A good scapegoat; blaming poor set-up for poor design.

I think you are rationalizing. I have owned Watt/Puppy 7's along with Sophia's for surround channels and am familiar with Wilson speakers and their bass response. I have had both the WP/7's and then Maxx 3's in the same room on the same electronics. There is a HUGE difference in bass response and realism in reproduction. I had a long conversation with Daryl Wilson about the differences between the XLF, Maxx 3 and the other smaller speakers in the line. They all reproduce bass well, it's just that the three you shun (WAMM, XLF, and Alexx reproduce it better and with authority.

 

[Mechnutt]

Just playing the spoiler here. I am not sure why people ask which speaker is better. Speakers are the most subjective part of audio. You can certainly describe what a given speaker sounds like, and what you like and don't like about it, especially in your own system but to compare comparably priced speakers and say one is better than the other (given that both speakers are good performers) is like comparing apples to oranges as we all have our own likes and dislikes. It is so subjective, more so with speakers and source components than any other gear.

 

[a.wayne]

+1

I have listened to and enjoyed a lot of different brands over the last 25 years in this hobby and the one constant I have found is that the BE tweeters drive me out of the room. YMMV. I know the BE tweeter specs look good on paper with the increased rigidity and extended frequency range but they do not sound natural to me and while running out of the room is a slight exaggeration, they do fatigue me quickly even when listening to my analog source. I speak from experience and was drawn in and purchased a pair of S5s but had to replace quickly after extended listening. There are clearly some who love these speakers and I expect they value different attributes than I did or they are partnered with different gear and likely provide a great listening experience so my opinion should not dissuade them. Each of us has our own bias and listening preference and speakers more than any other component are impacted by the room and electronic pairing. So its impossible to claim one absolute truth - just personal opinions. Some here can spend pages proclaiming why they are right - not sure why they spend so much time worrying that others prefer a different brand. If you are truly happy with your choice, than why worry....just listen to your brand and be happy.

WRT the OP - I think there are better examples from each of those brands available today. I suggest you can take some of the opinions offered in this thread but the best thing to do is go listen.

BE or not , i never saw the big deal with the reference 3a loudspeakers , kinda like the Vandy 2c , both have their followings , well at least the Vandy is inexpensive..

Meh ....!


Regards

 

[a.wayne]

I think you are rationalizing. I have owned Watt/Puppy 7's (see attached photos) along with Sophia's for surround channels and am familiar with Wilson speakers and their bass response. I have had both the WP/7's and then Maxx 3's in the same room on the same electronics. There is a HUGE difference in bass response and realism in reproduction. I had a long conversation with Daryl Wilson about the differences between the XLF, Maxx 3 and the other smaller speakers in the line. They all reproduce bass well, it's just that the three you shun (WAMM, XLF, and Alexx reproduce it better and with authority.

I have heard XLF's and X1's on numerous occasions now and have never heard an issue with bass on these models , on the other smaller models over the years , yes , some to the point of pain ..

The Alexx i heard recently was IMO way out of wack on the bass , but was fantastic on chorale and classical music , i believed Peter voiced them this way..


Regards

 

[Jim Smith]

I have heard XLF's and X1's on numerous occasions now and have never heard an issue with bass on these models , on the other smaller models over the years , yes , some to the point of pain ..

The Alexx i heard recently was IMO way out of wack on the bass , but was fantastic on chorale and classical music , i believed Peter voiced them this way..


Regards

At any or of these demos, did they tell you where the seat for the best (smoothest) bass was located?

IMO, that is ALWAYS the first step in set-up & evaluation.

It's hard to say what speakers have the best bass if we have no idea where the best seat for the bass is located. There is typically a fairly well-defined area for the best (smoothest) bass in most rooms. Especially at shows & dealer showrooms. Or even worse, if the speakers were not even set-up with that critical consideration foremost in mind for the best installation/demo...

WAY more important than moving speakers around without first locating the virtual Anchor Point for all adjustments.

Sad that it's rarely mentioned or considered.

 

[Joe P]

 

[LVB]

I think you are rationalizing. I have owned Watt/Puppy 7's along with Sophia's for surround channels and am familiar with Wilson speakers and their bass response. I have had both the WP/7's and then Maxx 3's in the same room on the same electronics. There is a HUGE difference in bass response and realism in reproduction. I had a long conversation with Daryl Wilson about the differences between the XLF, Maxx 3 and the other smaller speakers in the line. They all reproduce bass well, it's just that the three you shun (WAMM, XLF, and Alexx reproduce it better and with authority.

When it comes to bass perception, it all depends where you’re coming from. When people talk about bass “authority”, I do wonder where such a trait exists in un-amplified music (maybe Organ music :doubtful. I never walked out of a classical concert, or a jazz club feeling the bass was “authoritative”. I mean who would want that?? If arenas PA bass (more like midbass) is your idea of good bass (and I don’t mean it in a bad way), then yes Wilson's bass is plenty good.

But perception aside, I put the Maxx 3 (black) and the S5 (colors) JA gated measurements one on top of the other (I would say that the Maxx 3 bass is the least of its problems).