Why You Need More Than Just "Trusting Your Ears"

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nicoff

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Our ears cannot be trusted. Our brain can be tricked into thinking that what we are hearing is great when in reality it is not.

If you have not done it, from time to time you ought to run test signals through your system and see a graphic plot of the results. What one can find can actually surprise even the most seasoned "audiophile".

Using a microphone and free software it is easy to run frequency sweeps and graphically see what is happening with your system.

Just a few "finds":
- Over emphasized bass at certain frequencies
- Complete lack of bass at certain frequencies (bass frequencies cancelling out)
- Blown or damaged driver in a speaker
- Blown fuses
- Out of phase set ups
- Reversed connections (left speaker connected to right and vice-versa)
- Damaged/faulty Crossover

Long story short: Put technology to work for you; don't just trust your ears.
 
nicoff said:
Our ears cannot be trusted. Our brain can be tricked into thinking that what we are hearing is great when in reality it is not.
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Totally agree with this. Many people set up their systems totally by ear and are never quite satisfied. Sometimes, looking at a room response graph and seeing the anomalies can get to the end game much quicker. Also, as you pointed out, find functional problems with the equipment. Setting up subwoofers without the assistance of measurements is also likely to produce spotty results. I still think long term listening satisfaction is the final arbiter here, but using the technology can significantly accelerate the time required to reach that satisfaction.
 
Maybe some basic understanding of acoustics would go a long way to better sound. Measurements can only go so far. Just my two cents.
 
and with that being said Marty, remember, everything heard can be measured but not everything measured can be heard !
 
Dave I agree 1000% my friend. We should use all the knowledge and tools available to get the best sound from our high end audio hobby. Most people do not consider the importance of room treatment and simple speaker placement.

Mikado463 said:
and with that being said Marty, remember, everything heard can be measured but not everything measured can be heard !
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So if your brain tricks you into thinking it sounds great , but it's not , best to stop enjoying what you are hearing and run test tones to make sure your brain is not being deceptive..?

would love to hear your other theories, anything on selecting wives ...? :)



Regards
 
nc42acc said:
Dave I agree 1000% my friend. We should use all the knowledge and tools available to get the best sound from our high end audio hobby. Most people do not consider the importance of room treatment and simple speaker placement.
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...and placement of the listening position which is the anchor around which everything else is manipulated.
 
a.wayne said:
So if your brain tricks you into thinking it sounds great , but it's not , best to stop enjoying what you are hearing and run test tones to make sure your brain is not being deceptive..?

would love to hear your other theories, anything on selecting wives ...? :)



Regards
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Not at all. Just allows you to get to that great sound more quickly and with less frustration, equipment changes, etc.
 
Mikado463 said:
and with that being said Marty, remember, everything heard can be measured but not everything measured can be heard !
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The saying is opposite... everything measured can be heard, but not everything heard can be measured.

However... the idea of this hobby is to enjoy music. If someone enjoys listening to music in their system then I put forth the proposition that is what matters. If someone is totally happy and satisfied with what they hear then why would they start doing measurements? Who cares about that, its all about the music.
 
IMO, all things being equal (the room, speaker placement, etc), test tones can give one a good initial starting point, but because we all have different hearing abilities, fine tuning a system is rather personal. Ultimately, I trust my ears to tell me what sound I like the best. After all it’s about me listening to my system for enjoyment, not some computer listening for its enjoyment. :band:
 
a.wayne said:
So if your brain tricks you into thinking it sounds great , but it's not , best to stop enjoying what you are hearing and run test tones to make sure your brain is not being deceptive..?

would love to hear your other theories, anything on selecting wives ...? :)





Regards
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what you're failing to 'see' in your example is the brain has already registered 'expectation bias'. if you don't believe it exists you're already a lost soul ........
 
nc42acc said:
Maybe some basic understanding of acoustics would go a long way to better sound. Measurements can only go so far. Just my two cents.
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Yes, measurements and acoustics go hand in hand, after all, acoustics is based in science therefore the need for measurements.
 
Randy Myers said:
The saying is opposite... everything measured can be heard, but not everything heard can be measured.
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Sayings are not facts. Facts are based in science; sayings are not.

Randy Myers said:
However... the idea of this hobby is to enjoy music.
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Agree! I got into the hobby because I enjoy music. However, I have to say that over the years I have learned that many in this hobby enjoy gear much more than they enjoy music.


Randy Myers said:
If someone enjoys listening to music in their system then I put forth the proposition that is what matters.
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Totally, 100% agree.

Randy Myers said:
If someone is totally happy and satisfied with what they hear then why would they start doing measurements? Who cares about that, its all about the music.
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That's a great question that can be presented some other way.

I bet that many people in this forum at some point have been "totally happy and satisfied" with their equipment. And even if they support that "it is about the music", those same individuals at some point later on ended up replacing the speakers, adding exotic cables, upgrading electronics, etc, you name it!

So... why do these people change their system after being "totally happy and satisfied"?

A possible answer, perhaps, is that change is ingrained into those who enjoy this hobby. We seem to stand still only briefly before we decide that we need to change something. New equipment becomes available and then some of us need to try something new despite the fact that we were "totally happy and satisfied" with what we had. So some of us go for that new Speaker/DAC/Amp/cable or whatever that we got to try!

For other folks in this hobby, instead of spending tens of thousand of dollars changing gear/cables/etc., change means exploring new ways of getting the most out of the equipment that they already own. During that process they learn, for example, that they are only partially utilizing the capabilities of the equipment that they already have. They learn that they can use technology (measurements) to make sure that their current equipment is working as intended and in the process they discover acoustic deficiencies (via measurements) that no new Speaker/DAC/Amp/cable can fix, but something that can be cheaply improved/corrected via technology (DSP), and they go for it!

A sports car analogy may help explain the thinking process:
"I am very happy with my sports car. Actually, I love it. But my car is now three years old and a new upgraded version has been released! The manufacturer tweaked the headlights and added 35 more horsepower! But if I sell what I have and buy the new one, it will cost me $50k! Oh, wait, maybe I should keep what I have and modify the "chip" in the car computer for just $1k! that chip adds 130 horsepower and it will be faster than the new model. Better performance and I save $39k!" [Porsche owners can relate]
 
All good points, of course. However, I don't need to run measurements when I start thinking, hmmm, can I tweak this? I understand that for many they do. To each their own. A friend in our audio club has to. In many ways he is making his setup far too complicated.

Honestly, I personally prefer to not run measurements because I know we hear so much more than we understand how to measure. Also, I prefer to not use DSP to change the sound, especially on my analog side.
 
This hobby is no different than most others. Upgradeitus is the same in everything. Who cares if you upgrade your DAC every 3 months.
 
u-sound said:
the problem is the current measurements are somehow flat.
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Not sure what you mean. Measurements are measurements; they are what they are.
Now, the Adjustments that you make to the measurements are whatever you like or want them to be.
 
Randy Myers said:
The saying is opposite... everything measured can be heard, but not everything heard can be measured.
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that might be 'the saying' but the 'fact' is just the opposite !! 'The saying' has zero logic ..........



However... the idea of this hobby is to enjoy music. If someone enjoys listening to music in their system then I put forth the proposition that is what matters. If someone is totally happy and satisfied with what they hear then why would they start doing measurements? Who cares about that, its all about the music.
Click to expand...

While I agree Randy, it is the 'music that matters' I will never buy into the amount of audiophile BS that some folks seem to think necessary .............
 
We are all participants in a $1Bn global industry (tiny) based on a combination of objective evidence and subjective experience. There is nothing quite like it. Anywhere. We can measure below the noise floor created by the brownian motion of the constituent atoms themselves. And yet, we are presented with products that claim to dramatically improve the sonics of our systems, nay to touch the very nature of our souls, with only the considered opinions of others as evidence. And we experience these products sometimes in ways so compelling that we believe they will increase our enjoyment. And they do. Because we can’t yet measure how our personal auditory cortex operates on the stimuli it receives. It’s a fascinating conundrum that makes the hobby very intellectually interesting to me.
 
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