Who has the best?

sharkmouth

sharkmouth

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As I am sitting here sipping on my Pinot Noir from New Zealand, a thought has occurred! Why not invite others to help me decide. I am after an added tube sound to my system that I can switch to & from at whim. I am after the true to tubes sound, as in all the bloom without the microphonic's, but am also after a class amp or pre etc. Want detail as well as prat, but not at the ransom of a very mundane 88! Any thoughts on what is best at the mo to help me on the search. Absolutely loving the reviews on the Rogers EHF-200 MKII at the mo, just would love to hear it at first....
 
What speakers? Not to sound rude, but you don't keep the same speakers long enough to make a recommendation (yeah, I know, I'm one to talk).

For your current speakers? What's the efficiency?

The Rogers is a integrated, do you want an integrated?

How big is your room and what's your average SPL level?

You knock the KT88's, but they can be quite good - certainly better than the KT120's and KT150's according to two very knowledgeable tube amp designers I have spoken with.

The magic of tubes is in the low powered babies, in this order (IMO): 45, 2A3, 300b, 211/845. There are some other esoteric tubes mixed in like the 101D. EL34's are in between the sound of these classic tubes and some of the more modern tubes.

So let me know the answer to the Q's above.
 
Kev - if your speakers are super efficient and if you can run single ended, then Shindo is about as good as it gets unless you want to go crazy expensive and go Audio Note/Kondo. For me, in the right setup (single ended), with the right speakers, Shindo would be a destination amp. They exemplify musicality and all the good about tubes. Be prepared to turn into a puddle....Shindo amps will melt your heart and may just ruin you for good.
 
rogers is very interesting kev. but mike is right it depends on the budget and the type you are looking for. and those monitors you have can run on more amps than a floorstander with the same db and nomonal ohm rating. there is shindo supposedly the best of the best. the two shindo preamps ive heard were awesome, but only once did i get to hear the whole shindo setup. and i was not that impressed. and its a whole lot of money. but it could just have been my experience and not the gear, the speakers were not all that either.lol. waste of a day pretty much. hahaha!!!
you have to decide where you want to go. 211/845? 300b? el34? big kt's?
to me the kt's are very solid state sounding, if your adding tubes id sty away from those.
dont get me wrong my bat amps were awesome, but definitely not "classic tube" sounding
the el34's are nice and sweet, yet my snappers were loaded with them and although i liked them i never loved them.
the 300bs im using now are my favorite so far , although ive found that if you want the good tube sound and more power to go the 845 way, most of the 845 amps will give you more watts needed to drive speakers. not a whole lot more but some. but right now im hooked on these 300b's and for the money ive not heard better. in lots of different price points. you know my love for allnic. but there are so many more out there you just have to go hear for yourself. but if you got the speakers to run them, try out the sophia 91-05 or 03 integrated not many watts at all but great magic!!!
 
Would love to find an integrated & the 845's have my attention too. Steve I am with you on the KT's.

Mike 89db at 1m. Integrated would be ideal & have the Line Magnetic, Allnic, & Rogers in the hunt, but would need to listen to the KT equipped ones as imho few know how to tune them to their best potential. Not a fan of overpriced gear up in the stratospheres, I've heard enough of it to know better. & as someone pointed out it will need to have some poke for tubes as I may change something so 8w may not be a good thing down the road.Anything with 88's need not apply, I already have 2000w.... ;)
 
Cary makes a beautiful 300b integrated that won't break the bank and give you all the 300b magic. Spend the rest on some sweet Western Electric 300b replicas from Grant Fidelity and you're good to go!


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Mike said:
Cary makes a beautiful 300b integrated that won't break the bank and give you all the 300b magic. Spend the rest on some sweet Western Electric 300b replicas from Grant Fidelity and you're good to go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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amen to that!!!!! my carys do 15w, which is big for 300b's, and at 90 db my fabers can go as loud as i ever tried without any stress on the sound. id say cary would be a good fit for you kev. there integrated is also 15w and it will drive your speakers. as you said you have your 2000w. now you need a chillin' amp, and that would do it. medium volume 300b's in the dark, ive yet to experience a stereo moment i like as much as that.
and yea good tubes are the key!!!
 
Did some serious reading on this today......LM 219ia, has 300B's & 845's, a pairing that I would find really hard to say no to. IMO, I'd consider these 2 choices of tubes stellar....











& just so we're clear, this is how I felt when i read the stats on it, .....Oh yeah, the friggin thing weighs 55kg, all power transformer weight though ;) , mono etc.






Love this pic, nice to see the old fella havin a blast.
 
the professor said:
I find shindo so rolled off that the prat is lost. Vocals are wonderful though.
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Jock, I hope you will drag that new UHA deck by one day and we can see just how rolled off this Shindo gear is! That R2R is a machine I dearly covet... just stunning! Congrats
 
sharkmouth said:
Did some serious reading on this today......LM 219ia, has 300B's & 845's, a pairing that I would find really hard to say no to. IMO, I'd consider these 2 choices of tubes stellar....











& just so we're clear, this is how I felt when i read the stats on it, .....Oh yeah, the friggin thing weighs 55kg, all power transformer weight though ;) , mono etc.






Love this pic, nice to see the old fella havin a blast.
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thats a good choice kev. me and doug saw one when he was visiting ny, but we couldnt hear it cause.... well the guy was kinda lazy.lol. but it is big and tank like and cool looking. i will get back to that store to hear that soon.
 
Steve, thanks for the reply. Mate I am loving the fact that I have another avenue that I have never explored. Don't know jack about tubes but am a quick study......
 
Kev - be careful to understand how the 300b and 845 tubes are used. I would GUESS, in this case, you are talking 845 output tubes and 300b driver tubes. Meaning, little to no magic from the 300b's. 845's run extremely hot and sound very different from 300b's - which I'm assuming is the tube magic you seek. If it were me, I would stay focused on a pure 300b tube amp.

Mike
 
the professor said:
I find shindo so rolled off that the prat is lost. Vocals are wonderful though.
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I agree ,but to me even the vocals are not that great.........i really think Shindo is very, very over rated(subjective of course) .....reminds me of tube amps from the 60,70's ....very rolled off and way to thick/lush, but again just an opinion.
 
Mike said:
Kev - be careful to understand how the 300b and 845 tubes are used. I would GUESS, in this case, you are talking 845 output tubes and 300b driver tubes. Meaning, little to no magic from the 300b's. 845's run extremely hot and sound very different from 300b's - which I'm assuming is the tube magic you seek. If it were me, I would stay focused on a pure 300b tube amp.

Mike
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Mike, I'm hearing you. Have a lot of people around me that are very knowledgable & I bounce ideas with. This unit I can home demo when the time is right. The sound I am wanting to hear is the midrange bloom, not at the cost of detail, with a good extension from a ballsy tube as well. Class A is hot, yes.;) Shindo is definitely out, over priced imo & green??? :D
 
Kev - I think the Line Magnetic might just be the ticket. But don't ignore the Cary 300b integrated either. Very reasonably priced too.


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Kev...what's the impedance curve on your speakers look like? You may not need a whole lot of watts to drive your speakers loud (although if you listen to dynamic music you actually will) but more importantly tbe amps and SET tube amps have a difficult time with speakers that have low and uneven impedance (meaning peaks and valleys where the impedance dips - representing an increasingly tough load requiring lots of current aka amperes - to drive them. if your speakers' impedance dips in the bass region then most tube amps will have a tough time delivering the required current to drive those frequencies, which will manifest itself as weak or attenuated bass and will make the speakers sound peaky (meaning tonality will shift up an octave or two and be midrange and treble heavy, sounding thin and threadbare). SET amps, such as the ones Steve and Mike are suggesting (especially 300Bs), are best matched with speakers at least 92dB sensitive but more importantly that have nominal impedance around 8ohms or higher and have a flattish impedance curve without dipping below 6ohms. If you look at most of John DeVore's speakers or the Coincident Tech or Living Voice or Zu speakers they typically have nominal 8ohm impedance, flattish curves across the frequency band and are quite high in sensitivity precisely to play nice with SET amps. Of course speakers from Shindo, Line Magnetic,e tc...are also very high impedance (meaning very easy load) and very high sensitivity also to play nice with their amps. A lot of the horn speakers as well would play nice with SET amps. My personal reco for you and your speakers is that if you want to try an SET amp with your speakers that you go with the 845 tube with at least 30wpc (prolly better int he 50wpc range of which there are a few) and something that can put out at least 10-12 amperes of peak current.

Most folks when they assess the speaker - amp matching equation look at the wattage and speaker sensitivity but that is really about how load you want to drive the speaker. What gets totally underappreciated or not even fully thought of is the impedance matching between the speaker and the amp and the ability of the amplifier to provide enough current across the frequency band so you are not introducing tonal changes in the speaker (again could manifest itself as a suckout in the bass, midrange, or treble region but usually in the bass region causing the corresponding shift in tonal character to the speaker).

Not sure what you are budgeting for this exercise but if you go with my reco of 845s and at least 30 but preferably 50 wpc with peak current delivery of at least 10-12 amperes, it starts getting pretty expensive. In which case, you might almost want to consider the LM 219 in conjunction with an SET-friendly speaker and come out at the same place cost wise but now you have a much more appropriately matched amplifier-speaker combo that are designed to play together.

Just my 2c mate :D (that was a little Aussie speak there for you bud :D)
 
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