Which Amp?

[CDLehner]

Oh, I got a memo. LOTS of PMs, saying what asses some of you have been.

Just too scared, to say it out loud; because they've seen the heavy-hand of Shark justice that gets doled-out.

 

[MDP]

Oh, I got a memo. LOTS of PMs, saying what asses some of you have been.

Just too scared, to say it out loud; because they've seen the heavy-hand of Shark justice that gets doled-out.

Chris,
We have a lot of members here. Most of them have come here to escape the constant bickering of other forums. You seem to not get it. You have reached out so many times for advice,and have always received many responses. But instead of appreciating it, you ignore it and then ask again. My advice to you, even though you did not ask it, is to come up with plan for what you want in a system. Having a goal and a plan can lead to long term satisfaction. Which so far you have not had. If you feel that we're awful people and don't want to help you, I don't know what else to say.

 

[puroagave]

Oh, I got a memo. LOTS of PMs, saying what asses some of you have been.

Just too scared, to say it out loud; because they've seen the heavy-hand of Shark justice that gets doled-out.

i'll play. you're comparing a 250 WPC amp against a 60 WPC amp to a 30 WPC amp. What sort of parity do you expect with such a discrepancy in power esp if your speakers need juice? I thought you gave up on the Pass amp because at 30 WPC it was under powered.:dunno:

 

[Jack]

With your speakers to me the choice would be fairly easy, the CJ combo.

 

[Paul]

I've seen two different side of person on On line and Off Line. I'm sure Chris is also one of those nice person. .

Chris, What are you missing on your current set up ? When I had the PMC Ib2i more power was better. I know it's different speakers but I'm sure they are coming from same house sounds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CDLehner]

Guys...I don't know what to say; except that I suppose, I'm an audiophile enigma.

I've literally loved music and gear, since I was like 6; had my own "stereos", since I was like 10. Spent $800 on the the first, sub-$1k CD player...in 1985, at 17; and so it went.

I read ALL the mags; Stereo Review, when I was like 15. Stereophile, Absolute Sound, etc. I always lusted, after the big ticket items; but I could only read about them. For years, I did the best I could, with what I could; but I was firmly mired in mid-fi.

About 10 years ago...I started investing more (...and more) money, into my system. Naturally...given the circumstances; I was like a kid in a candy store. How to decide, between brands...that to that point, I'd only read about in magazines; brands like ARC, BAT, C-J, etc. I mean...with rare exception, did anything I every try; sound like "crap". They all had their strengths and minuses. And it's hard for me, to decide on a "sound"...because maybe unlike some; I don't listen to one Genre of music. And I don't mean two Genres, like Orchestral and Chamber Classical. I listen to everything from delicate, superbly-recorded...audiophile fodder; to new...deliberately lo-fi, Garage, Indie, etc...and EVERYTHING in between!

So I get it...I'm hard to give advice to, because the truth is; I'm not even sure, what I'm looking for or suits me. Do I like the Luxman IA? Yes. Do I like the ARC VT-50? Yes. Do I like the C-J combo? Duh. But...one does this well, while the other does that well; while one costs this...and the other costs that.

Like I just told someone: if you use audiophile as a verb...like drinking; as in you'd say "man...he drank hard, for 10 years". Well...I "audiophiled" hard, for about 10 years lol

I've taken my share of criticism...because I guess people assume, I'm walking into a B&M; handing over my Amex, and just paying sticker price. And then losing 50% of that value, when I decide to flip/sell. Trust me...that's NOT the case; after my initial investment, of course...which I could get back, anytime I wanted, if I liquidated. I'd say if I had to add it all up; I'd actually be in the Black a few dollars

I think some of the criticism (not here...but elsewhere); is a certain "jealously". People wish, they could flip gear...and always be trying something new (they can...trust me; I'm middle-class, but hardly rich); or...they get upset, because people come to me for advice...like I'm an "expert". I don't purport myself to be; but I will say this: IMO...being an "expert", to the extent that you can in this hobby, comes from trying gear! I mean...no offense; but what kind of opinion, can a guy who's owned the same kit...for 10 years, really offer? I mean, what he heard at a trade show, maybe.

So not poor me; I give as good as I get...better even And I have a lot of hobbies...Audio, Cigars, Wine, Whisky, etc; that some might consider high-falutin', and "snobby"...but I don't see them that way. So I like to joke around, with the guys...maybe let an expletive or 2 fly; and really mix it up, about this hobby we supposedly love.

But IDK; sometimes, it seems some of you either a) only want to push your own agenda, or b) push a financial interest.

I don't have either; I LIKE AUDIO! I like to TALK about audio! And yes, I have decisions...that are sometimes, tough for me to make; and I'll seek advice. But JC...some of you guys, sound like my wife or mother (both women, BTW!). They'll say "why do you ask my advice, when you're not going to take it"? Seriously...that sounds like the dumbest thing, I've ever heard.

Advice is welcome...especially when I've asked for it; but ultimately...after I've taken in, what others have to say and filtered it through my own decision-making process, gut feeling, or what-have-you. It's MY decision to make, for myself! Is that really, so hard to understand? Don't you guys do that?

You're buying a new car. You read reviews, Consumer Report; talk to people...test drive. But then...do you just buy, what others say is best; or do you take all that information, wrap it in with your own...and choose for yourself. My goodness...I hope that's a rhetorical question.

And again...worst of all; even though I guess hearts were in the right place. I asked about one thing...or within certain parameters, and all I got was any but; and/or "p*ss off...you never listen anyway". And then I get criticized, for being the one...who's wrecked the "friendliest audio forum" moniker?

So, anyway...that's just my side of it. Thanks for reading.

 

[MDP]

Oh, I got a memo. LOTS of PMs, saying what asses some of you have been.

Just too scared, to say it out loud; because they've seen the heavy-hand of Shark justice that gets doled-out.

Chris, I just read your post. And a lot of what you said makes sense. If it's all about the journey, not the destination, then that's fine.

But when you say something like the quote above, I feel that's unfair.

We do have rules here, and I think that's why our forum remains so civil compared to others

Most of us are looking for the one system that gives us great satisfaction on a daily basis, and we assumed that was your goal as well. There is nothing wrong about swapping gear for fun. If that's your what you are really wanting, go for it. But remember that when you ask for advice, we're assuming you have a long term plan to put a system together that has great synergy and one you would keep for a while.

 

[CDLehner]

Chris, I just read your post. And a lot of what you said makes sense. If it's all about the journey, not the destination, then that's fine.

But when you say something like the quote above, I feel that's unfair.

We do have rules here, and I think that's why our forum remains so civil compared to others

Most of us are looking for the one system that gives us great satisfaction on a daily basis, and we assumed that was your goal as well. There is nothing wrong about swapping gear for fun. If that's your what you are really wanting, go for it. But remember that when you ask for advice, we're assuming you have a long term plan to put a system together that has great synergy and one you would keep for a while.

Fair enough Mark; and like Paul said...people who have met me, are usually like "wow...you're nothing like I expected". I guess that has to do, with the lack of inflected and tone...in posting.

I'm a sarcastic smart-ass, to be sure; but a good-natured one. In other words...my goal is to laugh with you, not at you.

You say "civil", and I get that's usually a "good" thing; but too much civility and draconian-ism, sure takes the F-U-N out of things.

It's audio; it's music! We all, spend a relatively obscene amount of dough on our hobby; we got real FWPs. Need we take ourselves so seriously?

As for this "we didn't know, for you...it was about the journey and not the destination" assertion; well...I made it clear, from the OP...it's a little of both.

Anyone who knows me...and we're a pretty small, tight group here; knows...I change gear like socks. Certainly some of the people denigrating me here, obviously know it. But what did I say, in the OP? I'm p u r g i n g, and settling in to just one kit.

So...I'm a guy who admittedly, slutted around in the past; but now I'm looking to settle down. But that doesn't mean, I'm going to marry...someone I've never even met before So I asked about Lori Luxman, Adriana ARC, and Christina C-J; gals I'm currently dating. And I get "why don't you marry, Roseanne Rogers over here"? ROFL

A friend and member, says I'm wasting my time; trying to explain myself to you guys. I guess it's the eternal optimist in me. But the question's been answered, and it...and the ancillary issues...doesn't really need to be discussed anymore.

Thanks

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Fair enough Mark; and like Paul said...people who have met me, are usually like "wow...you're nothing like I expected". I guess that has to do, with the lack of inflected and tone...in posting.

I'm a sarcastic smart-ass, to be sure; but a good-natured one. In other words...my goal is to laugh with you, not at you.

You say "civil", and I get that's usually a "good" thing; but too much civility and draconian-ism, sure takes the F-U-N out of things.

It's audio; it's music! We all, spend a relatively obscene amount of dough on our hobby; we got real FWPs. Need we take ourselves so seriously?

As for this "we didn't know, for you...it was about the journey and not the destination" assertion; well...I made it clear, from the OP...it's a little of both.

Anyone who knows me...and we're a pretty small, tight group here; knows...I change gear like socks. Certainly some of the people denigrating me here, obviously know it. But what did I say, in the OP? I'm p u r g i n g, and settling in to just one kit.

So...I'm a guy who admittedly, slutted around in the past; but now I'm looking to settle down. But that doesn't mean, I'm going to marry...someone I've never even met before So I asked about Lori Luxman, Adriana ARC, and Christina C-J; gals I'm currently dating. And I get "why don't you marry, Roseanne Rogers over here"? ROFL

A friend and member, says I'm wasting my time; trying to explain myself to you guys. I guess it's the eternal optimist in me. But the question's been answered, and it...and the ancillary issues...doesn't really need to be discussed anymore.

Thanks

Response to First Bold --- Yep
Response to Second Bold --- Nope

 

[Randy Myers]

It is all about enjoying our hobby, our obsession.... There certainly is nothing wrong with trying new things, experimenting with this new amp, that new per-amp, etc... and people throwing out other ideas is also great.... it is the fun about this whole hobby... sort of like, heh, I am thinking this and some one putting out there why not try this instead... no worries, just discussions and fun in this crazy hobby.

Again, it is fun it is a hobby so we all have to not take ourselves so seriously.... yes we are talking about some pretty dam expensive pieces.... so I really take other peoples opinions to heart, weather they take the path I asked for or not......

 

[CDLehner]

It is all about enjoying our hobby, our obsession.... There certainly is nothing wrong with trying new things, experimenting with this new amp, that new per-amp, etc... and people throwing out other ideas is also great.... it is the fun about this whole hobby... sort of like, heh, I am thinking this and some one putting out there why not try this instead... no worries, just discussions and fun in this crazy hobby.

Again, it is fun it is a hobby so we all have to not take ourselves so seriously.... yes we are talking about some pretty dam expensive pieces.... so I really take other peoples opinions to heart, weather they take the path I asked for or not......

OK; I guess that's the other side. Fair point.

Let's get back to the gear! I am surprised, not one person...voted for the Luxman.

Look...it's a small sample size; right now, there are 15 votes...8 for the C-J, 7 for the ARC. A virtual tie, AFAIC.

So just out of curiosity...comment if you want, or don't; I wonder the "knock" against the M-600a? Should I answer my own question (since I seem to have all the answers anyway, lol. J/K )

Lux makes beautiful gear; and no doubt, there's solid engineering there. But as a friend has pointed out...and maybe some of you, in this thread as well: a) if I was to be satisfied, by a 30/60 class-A power-amp; I arguable had the best one to choose from, in the Pass XA-30.8. Some say, we assume that didn't suit you...because you flipped it; so why even put the M-600a on the table?

VALID! But that's the, admittedly...screwed-up thing about me; sometimes...I don't realize what I had, or what I really like...'til it's by me. But b) if I want Lux class-A...I'm probably not that far, from M-600a performance; in my already-owned L-550AX.

Class-A is tricky for me. OT1H...I love, the lush thick presentation, with some material; OTOH...a) not so much on others; can sound almost rolled-off...and there's not much slam, to speak of. And b) I find system matching, to be extremely crucial; and that's kinda why, I didn't stick with the Pass (perhaps regrettably).

I don't even remember, what pre-amp I had it matched with; oh...yes I do. An Ayre K-5xe MP; a pre, I found extremely musical...with the A/B I had it paired with at the time. So then...I got a good opportunity (aka price, lol); to try an XA-30.8...a "dream" amp to me, if you will. IDK; I wasn't crazy about the pairing.

The Ayre, IMO...is already a little tube-like, in its presentation (and I hardly ever, use an SS pre; so the Ayre being one of the few, to seem tube-like to me); so...it, together with the already "lush" class-A Pass, was almost too much of a good thing (with the, in-no-way-tipped-up sounding PMCs).

At the time...I was also, trying to decide between 2 speakers; and I'm sure you'll all agree...that was the real mistake! The Pass, and class-A presentation, worked OK with the PMCs; but I had also just bought KEF Ref 1s, and I really wanted them to "win". And Class-A, was definitely not the right choice for them (rated 85db, have heard they measure...more like 82!).

I thought maybe it was, again, too much of a good thing; so I moved the Ayre pre, for a Pass XP-10; hoping that pairing would clean things up some, and sound better with the KEFs. Sorry...didn't care, for the XP-10 at all; felt like a "downgrade", if anything, from the Ayre. That's when I said...great as this Pass is, the KEFs need muscle; and I went Classe CP-700/CA-2200.

Look...I'm not trying to go through, every little change I made. Point is...I was letting the tail wag the dog; I was trying to make the gear, fit the speakers. Turns out...I liked the Twenty 26s better, all along (not to denigrate the Ref 1s; fine speaker, just not my cuppa compared to the PMCs).

Now...I have my speakers, and "Jane...I want off this crazy thing!" :lol:

So...I'm getting there; and I won't be bothering the forum, with my inquisitions much longer. I probably am selling the C-J gear; not because it's not great, and maybe even the "best" of the 3 contenders. There is a financial component...and the C-J is costliest, newest, and can bring the most ROI.

But even so...I stand by what I've said: I like to bullsh*t about gear, get opinions, hear what others have to say. Might sound contradictory...and that goes to Randy's point, about the "why not try this instead" approach. I guess my issue, was with the semantics. You know...if someone had been like "Chris, those are fine choices...and if you're limited to those, for some reason; then my vote is X. But in that price-range, have you ever heard/considered a Y?"; I don't think my reaction would have been the same.

But hell...I'm not asking, for anyone to be "perfect". It's behind us, AFAIC. :audiophile:

 

[bzr]

There is one thing that I have noticed through all of this thread that hasn't been touched upon. My advice is to get your listening room up to the best level you can. Forget the next upgrade forget the next fix or high & buckle in for a sweater. Once you've realised & lived within a sonically right audio space, your whole slant on the audiophile thing "shifts". Then & only then do you realise that money, tubes, reputation etc has got jack to do with the sound that we are all chasing as an individual as well as the collective acceptance. Once we tune our ears, or even better, once we train our memory as to what real sound in "our" space sounds like when done properly, as well as should sound like, any piece of gear sounds good in that space,if, the synergy is within the limits of the system. just a fleeting 5 second thought from my personal experience.....tame the room, not the bank account, synergy in the system brings harmony to the mind.

 

[Mikado463]

There is one thing that I have noticed through all of this thread that hasn't been touched upon. My advice is to get your listening room up to the best level you can. Forget the next upgrade forget the next fix or high & buckle in for a sweater. Once you've realised & lived within a sonically right audio space, your whole slant on the audiophile thing "shifts". Then & only then do you realise that money, tubes, reputation etc has got jack to do with the sound that we are all chasing as an individual as well as the collective acceptance. Once we tune our ears, or even better, once we train our memory as to what real sound in "our" space sounds like when done properly, as well as should sound like, any piece of gear sounds good in that space,if, the synergy is within the limits of the system. just a fleeting 5 second thought from my personal experience.....tame the room, not the bank account, synergy in the system brings harmony to the mind.

BINGO ………….. agreed completely Kev, trouble is talking about our 'rooms' is not as 'sexy' as talking / bragging about ones gear on all the various audio forums !

 

[Mikado463]

There is one thing that I have noticed through all of this thread that hasn't been touched upon. My advice is to get your listening room up to the best level you can. Forget the next upgrade forget the next fix or high & buckle in for a sweater. Once you've realised & lived within a sonically right audio space, your whole slant on the audiophile thing "shifts". Then & only then do you realise that money, tubes, reputation etc has got jack to do with the sound that we are all chasing as an individual as well as the collective acceptance. Once we tune our ears, or even better, once we train our memory as to what real sound in "our" space sounds like when done properly, as well as should sound like, any piece of gear sounds good in that space,if, the synergy is within the limits of the system. just a fleeting 5 second thought from my personal experience.....tame the room, not the bank account, synergy in the system brings harmony to the mind.

BINGO ………….. agreed completely Kev, trouble is talking about our 'rooms' is not as 'sexy' as talking / bragging about ones gear on all the various audio forums !

 

[Randy Myers]

I guess I just assume that one of the first things anyone getting into high end equipment would do is get their room setup to be as conducive to listen to music as possible. Of course included in this would be to make sure that the room has as good sonic as you can make it.

 

[Mike]

Kev/Randy/Dave - all good points!

Attention to room treatments (or DSP if room treatments are not an option) and proper grounding with clean power are the foundations of any great system. A great system in a bad room is not going to sound great. A mediocre system in a great room can get exceptional performance.

Also, proper speaker setup and attention to setup fundamentals, such as keeping sensitive components away from one another, is key. Sticking a giant bookshelf between a set of speakers which are pushed flush against the wall, will be a nightmare. If you must have equipment between your speakers, having multiple shorty racks is preferable to having one or two large, tall racks. Too much diffusion between the speakers creates a much less focused soundstage.

Last but not least, when possible, finding speakers which have adjustability - especially for ported speakers - can add that last touch.

 

[CPP]

Not to derail this thread but Mike you bring up a good point about speakers with DSP. Besides your speakers what other speaker companies have DSP adjustability built in ? Revel in some of their upper line have crossover adjustability.

 

[Mike]

Not to derail this thread but Mike you bring up a good point about speakers with DSP. Besides your speakers what other speaker companies have DSP adjustability built in ? Revel in some of their upper line have crossover adjustability.

Well, just to clarify, there is DSP and PEQ or crossover adjustment is what we see on some speakers. Vandersteen's, from what I recall, also have adjustments. Focal - in the Utopia line III - have adjustments. Changing out resistors in Wilson's, also has an impact on the sound. There are many others as well, including Gauder, Sonus Faber and more.

But the most profound and sophisticated adjustability I have ever seen on a speaker is with the Avantgarde XD's.

 

[CPP]

Mike I agree from what saw with your speakers and their adjustability a person would have to buy a external DSP device or maybe DSP software to get close to your setup and have Jim Simth come for a visit.

 

[Mikado463]

Not to derail this thread but Mike you bring up a good point about speakers with DSP. Besides your speakers what other speaker companies have DSP adjustability built in ? Revel in some of their upper line have crossover adjustability.

to the best of my recollection the new Martin Logan (Renaissance ESL 15A) has the adj you speak of.