Where to Buy Tubes?

I'm not encouraged by the lack of consensus here :|. Maybe we should ​start a new topic?
 
rbbert said:
I'm not encouraged by the lack of consensus here :|. Maybe we should ​start a new topic?
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Since when is there ever consensus on any topic with audiophiles? :facepalm:You live in Nevada which has a nice dry climate. It's not like you live by the ocean and store your tubes next to an open window with salt air ocean breezes blowing across them. I would think you shouldn't have corrosion issues to deal with. I live in Indiana and we have lots of humidity in the summer, but my tubes all live in the house where the climate is controlled and I don't have corrosion issues with my tube pins.

I just think that futzing with tube pins is one of those areas that audiophiles are probably doing more harm than good. Just like overzealous audiophiles who tighten binding posts until they are spinning around and then they wonder what happened. Someone never taught them that tight is tight and too tight is broke.
 
Mark, I can tell (from this and other posts) that you don't use many vintage NOS tubes, but you probably know that for many tube types they sound better than current production tubes. I and others have found that even when those pins look good they often aren't. I've used Caig products since even before they were marketed to audiophiles; good science and experiences in the aerospace and computer industries were enough for me to try it and I've always been happy with the results (often immediately audible). Although I've never considered myself particularly tube-o-phile I've had tube gear off and on for close to 40 years, but I know others use them much more so I was hoping for some constructive advice?
 
rbbert said:
Mark, I can tell (from this and other posts) that you don't use many vintage NOS tubes, but you probably know that for many tube types they sound better than current production tubes. I and others have found that even when those pins look good they often aren't. I've used Caig products since even before they were marketed to audiophiles; good science and experiences in the aerospace and computer industries were enough for me to try it and I've always been happy with the results (often immediately audible). Although I've never considered myself particularly tube-o-phile I've had tube gear off and on for close to 40 years, but I know others use them much more so I was hoping for some constructive advice?
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I have a tube caddy full of vintage NOS tubes and low hour tubes. I haven't been using them since I got rid of my Counterpoint SA-2 and SA-5.1 because my ARC gear uses new production tubes that don't have variants for the 9 pin tubes.
 
I wonder how many people used magic goop to treat their tube pins and blew up their gear when they powered it on.
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More than a few I can tell you.
I tell my customers never to use cleaners on tube pins.
Two reasons: The liquid gets in and they don't let it dry and puffs of smoke emerge from their gear. Also a lot of so called "residue free" cleaners do in fact leave a residue. This leads to more gunk clogging the pins and sockets.
If the pins are that badly oxidized clean then with very fine emery cloth. Or replace the tubes.

As for the OP - if you have a bad tube, replace them with similar JJ Gold pin tubes that the Zesto was designed with. But a little bit of diagnoses should be done before you spend some money.

I just think that futzing with tube pins is one of those areas that audiophiles are probably doing more harm than good. Just like overzealous audiophiles who tighten binding posts until they are spinning around and then they wonder what happened. Someone never taught them that tight is tight and too tight is broke.
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+1
 
Magic Eraser works quite well for tube pins. Just push the pins into it several times and you're good to go.
 
Andy Baumann from Vintage Tube Services has his own top secret method for descaling tube pins:

THE PINS: Each pin on miniature tubes (excluding gold pinned tubes) is de-scaled by a time consuming, proprietary process. This descaling is the removal of the layer of VERY nasty oxides (the blue/black scale) left when the high temperature gas jets are blasting the tube during the joining of the base to the bulb and out-gassing. Octals are brass-wheeled with the same great care. This is one of the most important noise reducing features of V.T.S. tubes. I never will understand the guys who lose sleep for days over their Tweek/De-Oxit/Silver Paste, soaked, gold-plated, wrench-tightened, $5,000+ speaker and interconnects and then plug in tubes with pins that look like they’ve been at the bottom of the ocean for 200 years. NOTE: Many octals are very shiny and clean-looking even though they’ve been in a damp basement for 50 years. These don’t fool me either! There is a layer that you can not see that causes much noise, especially with the cheap weak-gripped-third world tube sockets used in most of today’s gear.

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Me, I first use solid Gorham silver polish with a q-tip first and then carefully clean the pins with distilled water. Then the pins are cleaned with Kontak. Makes a sizable improvement in the sonics with vintage tubes but I periodically go through the system and clean all my tubes.
 
blackdog said:
More than a few I can tell you.
I tell my customers never to use cleaners on tube pins.
Two reasons: The liquid gets in and they don't let it dry and puffs of smoke emerge from their gear. Also a lot of so called "residue free" cleaners do in fact leave a residue. This leads to more gunk clogging the pins and sockets.
If the pins are that badly oxidized clean then with very fine emery cloth. Or replace the tubes.

As for the OP - if you have a bad tube, replace them with similar JJ Gold pin tubes that the Zesto was designed with. But a little bit of diagnoses should be done before you spend some money.



+1
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Personally I would dump all of those JJ tubes in the nearest trash container. I've not heard a worse sounding tube nor less reliable.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Andy Baumann from Vintage Tube Services has his own top secret method for descaling tube pins:

THE PINS: Each pin on miniature tubes (excluding gold pinned tubes) is de-scaled by a time consuming, proprietary process. This descaling is the removal of the layer of VERY nasty oxides (the blue/black scale) left when the high temperature gas jets are blasting the tube during the joining of the base to the bulb and out-gassing. Octals are brass-wheeled with the same great care. This is one of the most important noise reducing features of V.T.S. tubes. I never will understand the guys who lose sleep for days over their Tweek/De-Oxit/Silver Paste, soaked, gold-plated, wrench-tightened, $5,000+ speaker and interconnects and then plug in tubes with pins that look like they’ve been at the bottom of the ocean for 200 years. NOTE: Many octals are very shiny and clean-looking even though they’ve been in a damp basement for 50 years. These don’t fool me either! There is a layer that you can not see that causes much noise, especially with the cheap weak-gripped-third world tube sockets used in most of today’s gear.

--------------------------------------------------------
Me, I first use solid Gorham silver polish with a q-tip first and then carefully clean the pins with distilled water. Then the pins are cleaned with Kontak. Makes a sizable improvement in the sonics with vintage tubes but I periodically go through the system and clean all my tubes.
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That's a good point about noise. I have found that cleaning the pins can eliminate tube noise as well. If you have a noisy tube and it's not microphonic clean the pins really good and try it again.
 
Finally some constructive, non-destructive answers :D. Myles, have you tried comparing Kontak to DeOxit? I like the Magic Eraser idea too. I remember a long time ago we used to use a rotary electric toothbrush w/WD-40 and then carefull clean and dry w/acetone, but that was in the days before all the proprietary contact cleaners.

An important point that Myles re-emphasized is that even a clean appearing tube pin may not be making the best electrical contact.
 
rbbert said:
All those certainly clean and polish, but I thought the purpose of Deoxit Gold was to prevent the adverse sonic effects of oxidation before it becomes visible? I was rolling tubes this morning and treating the new ones (as I always have) and realized I didn't remember reading anything about this one way or the other.
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I have BAT and Atma-Sphere rigs. Both Victor Khomenko/BAT and Ralph Karsten/A-S, advise against using 'contact enhancers', IIRC.
Uncertain if Deoxit Gold fits in that category.

Vbr,
San
 
William said:
It is not a good idea to polish tube pins to a bright finish because you are removing metal and reducing the diameter of the pin.You can scrape corrosion off of tube pins with a fiberglass pencil. you can also soak the pins in vinegar overnight.
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I use a brass wire brush/wheel to remove residue from tube pins. Residue was evident on virtually every 6C33 I sourced from the former USSR. Very good point about reducing tube pin diameter. This is also relevant if considering bead blasting a capstan for a reel-to-reel deck to rectify a polished capstan state. I must look into these fiberglass pencils...I've used pencil erasers to remove oxidation/grime from speaker cable spade lugs -- very effective, indeed :P

Vbr,
Sam
 
c1ferrari said:
I have BAT and Atma-Sphere rigs. Both Victor Khomenko/BAT and Ralph Karsten/A-S, advise against using 'contact enhancers', IIRC.
Uncertain if Deoxit Gold fits in that category.

Vbr,
San
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Considering the (often obvious) audible improvement with using it, I'm not sure if I would believe advice to not use it. OTOH, I'd gladly switch to something better if there is. I'm intrigued by the silver polish idea. Abrasives beyond an eraser, not so much.
 
rbbert said:
Considering the (often obvious) audible improvement with using it, I'm not sure if I would believe advice to not use it. OTOH, I'd gladly switch to something better if there is. I'm intrigued by the silver polish idea.
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I think they were more referring to the silver contact enhancers from Walker, Mapleshade, Extreme Audio, etc.

My problem with these enhancers is that they all degrade with time and there goes the sound. Like the original Tweek where it would turn into a dark oily mess.
 
rbbert said:
Finally some constructive, non-destructive answers :D. Myles, have you tried comparing Kontak to DeOxit? I like the Magic Eraser idea too. I remember a long time ago we used to use a rotary electric toothbrush w/WD-40 and then carefull clean and dry w/acetone, but that was in the days before all the proprietary contact cleaners.

An important point that Myles re-emphasized is that even a clean appearing tube pin may not be making the best electrical contact.
Click to expand...

Not a huge fan of the Deoxit stuff. Even recently tried it on the phone connections and the sound was a mess.
 
rbbert said:
Considering the (often obvious) audible improvement with using it, I'm not sure if I would believe advice to not use it.
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Victor and Ralph associated 'enhancers' with failure modes seen in their respective lines. Heresy, perhaps, but I would prioritize reliability -- and possibly, safety -- more greatly than sonics, in this instance :)

Vbr,
Sam
 
Problem was IIRC that audiophiles thought if a little contact paste was good, more was better. So what happened was the excess paste applied to the tube pins dripped down and ended up shorting out the tube socket or circuit board.

Personally you won't find me trying any contact enhancer that I 1) can't remove and 2) the manufacturer tells me takes a month or two to sound right. Before that I was told by one manufacturer, that the sound will be bright. Thanks but no thanks.
 
rbbert said:
Well Kontak is certainly cheap enough to warrant a trial
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I'll tell you where I think Kontak makes the biggest difference: AC power cord plugs. Once you lock onto the "sound" of a corroded or dirty plug, it's unmistakeable.
 
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