When Is an Older Speaker Just Too Old?

[nicoff]

Speakers use parts that are continually vibrating. Older speakers, in particular, are likely to have cones made with cardboard and rubber both of which will deteriorate with time (even if slowly). Even speakers without cones are not inmune (think of the delamination problems with many older Magnepan speakers).

Also speaker-building technology has changed. Think of Mágico and their internal metal framing or the different shapes of today’s speakers (not just the same old boxes of yesteryears).

So what parameters you look at/consider when you decide to purchase an older speaker? Is there a point where you say, for example, ‘I will not consider purchasing any speakers older than X years?’ Or maybe this is analogous to buying a used car: ‘I always wanted a 911 and since I can’t afford a new one, I will buy this 20 year old 996 dirt cheap’.

 

[Shadowfax]

Hard to answer. Some speakers hold up better than others. I recently bought then flipped a pair of Rectalinear Lowboy 3s from the original owner purchased new in 1971. All drivers and surrounds were intact and they sounded big and wonderful.

I just found my receipt from when I bought my Dynaudio speakers, they are now 19 years old and look and sound as they did out of the box.

If you are looking at Vintage stuff, if they sound good to you and all drivers are intact, xovers could use a recap but they will probably never sound as they were intended new unless you have exact replacements.

 

[BlueFox]

I look at it from the opposite perspective. How long will a new speaker remain at optimum performance. I am guessing 10 years, so in 8 more years I will need to replace my Magico S5 MK 2. Assuming I am still alive and not deaf at 78.

 

[Shadowfax]

I sure hope you get more than 10 years from a pair of $40K speakers.

 

[Mikado463]

I sure hope you get more than 10 years from a pair of $40K speakers.

I couldn't agree more and if not then that 40k speaker was a turd .......

back to aging speakers, stats present another challenge. By their very nature / design they require maintenance . Without it the panel will be lucky to last 10 years

 

[BlueFox]

I sure hope you get more than 10 years from a pair of $40K speakers.

I am sure they will sound pretty good after 10 years, but I said ‘optimum performance’. Speakers are mechanical devices, and a mechanical device deteriorates every time it is used. Just because one might not notice it doesn’t mean it isn’t occurring.

 

[rbbert]

... Speakers are mechanical devices, and a mechanical device deteriorates every time it is used...

What about "break-in"; isn't the opposite occurring then? I sort of dislike using the often used and abused and typically inappropriate automotive analogy, but looking at performance parameters of well maintained sports cars suggests that while some metrics might deteriorate (over 150k to 200k miles) very slightly, others improve. I don't think the mechanical wear of a speaker approaches that of a hard driven automobile; I could certainly be wrong, though.

 

[nicoff]

What about "break-in"; isn't the opposite occurring then? I sort of dislike using the often used and abused and typically inappropriate automotive analogy, but looking at performance parameters of well maintained sports cars suggests that while some metrics might deteriorate (over 150k to 200k miles) very slightly, others improve. I don't think the mechanical wear of a speaker approaches that of a hard driven automobile; I could certainly be wrong, though.

I am curious to know what metrics are better in any sports cars with 200k miles compared to same car with say 5k miles on it?

 

[gadawg]

I recently touched base with an old friend who purchased my B&W 801 Matrix series 2 from me in 1994 and they weren’t new then. He still loves them to this day and swears they sound the same. Without a new pair side by side with an older quality pair I doubt you’ll notice them degrading over time and even then the amount will be minimal assuming speakers were well cared for. Now if they sit idle for years then that’s another story.

George

 

[BlueFox]

What about "break-in"; isn't the opposite occurring then?

Yes, that is a good point. I suspect that being a mechanical device it initially loosens up (break-in). After that it continues to break-in, and then slowly deteriorates over time and use. At least that’s my hypothesis and I am sticking with it. I just hope I am still alive and not deaf after 10 years.

 

[steve59]

My Kef R105/3's were 25 when I sold them and other than replacing the foam woofer surrounds with rubber when they were 5 they still measured like new. I just wanted a change.

 

[rbbert]

I am curious to know what metrics are better in any sports cars with 200k miles compared to same car with say 5k miles on it?

Typically, handling and fuel economy. There are a variety of proposed theoretical reasons for this, but I don't know that any have been specifically tested or proven. What's more remarkable, though, is that almost all performance metrics change very little, assuming that worn out parts are replaced (as we have discussed also for speakers)

 

[nicoff]

Typically, handling and fuel economy. There are a variety of proposed theoretical reasons for this, but I don't know that any have been specifically tested or proven. What's more remarkable, though, is that almost all performance metrics change very little, assuming that worn out parts are replaced (as we have discussed also for speakers)

Thanks! In my view the only thing that may get better in a vehicle as it ages is its value. But that only applies to those few select cars that become classics. And it takes a long time in most cases (unless we are talking about extremely limited edition vehicles). And almost all of those vehicles are garage queens, sadly.

 

[puroagave]

...Or maybe this is analogous to buying a used car: ‘I always wanted a 911 and since I can’t afford a new one, I will buy this 20 year old 996 dirt cheap’.

I wouldn't touch a 996 with your 10 ft pole. I owned one back in the day when it was under factory warranty. from that era the only cars to consider were those models that had engines with split crankcases (GT2, GT3 and turbo). If you want a 'deal' on a water pumper, id set my sights on a 997.

 

[Shadowfax]

I really don't think we can compare the wear and tear on a car to the use of a speaker. Not even the same ballpark.

Only if speakers are stored in a wet or hot or all sunlight should they have any serious issues in 10 years that one could hear and point out.

 

[UltraFast69]

When I got back into audio, a local guy from Speaker Lab back in the day re-coned a pair of Snells I purchased new in the early 90’s from a dealer in Austin Texas during a short stint there (girl), he played them at his house running a pair of Krell Monos and other vintage gear he had and they sounded real good.

Last year I brought them into the music room and set them up and they no way sounded like I heard them at his repair shop.

My modern amp and cabling may of been the reason. I wasn’t comparing these to my current speakers just trying to hear what I heard at the shop to no avail.

So perhaps it’s the art of blending vintage with vintage and like auto use the 20 year timeline to define as classic?






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[nicoff]

I wouldn't touch a 996 with your 10 ft pole. I owned one back in the day when it was under factory warranty. from that era the only cars to consider were those models that had engines with split crankcases (GT2, GT3 and turbo). If you want a 'deal' on a water pumper, id set my sights on a 997.

I agree! I spoke from experience as well. I too had a 996 back in the day and had all kind of issues (warranty covered, but still).

 

[mep]

I don't know if asking "When is an older speaker just too old?" is the right question to ask. There are speakers that were built last week that don't sound worth a damn and there will be some built tomorrow that will be in the same boat. Rather than focusing on age, focus on whether some older speakers truly sounded great and you always wanted to own a pair of them. There is a reason why some speakers and other stereo gear become classics over time and turn into appreciating assets instead of depreciating assets. My JBL 4345s are a case in point.

The JBL 4345s are around 40 years old. They were designed by Greg Timbers and were designed to be used in recording studios. They are big floor standing speakers that take up a chunk of real estate, They are also rare and in demand. Why are they in demand? The sound of course. Kenrick in Japan used to refurbish real JBL 4345s and sell them to their customers, but the demand far outstripped their supply. Kenrick resorted to manufacturing clones to sell to their clients who were willing to pay big money even though they were purchasing clones which will never have the value of the original JBL 4345s. Last I knew, a pair of clones from Kenrick is over $20,000 plus shipping from Japan. Try and find a pair of real JBL 4345s for sale that haven't been molested by previous owners. We all know audiophiles that are far smarter than the engineers that designed the equipment they bought and just can't help themselves from making "improvements." Finding an unmolested pair of JBL 4345s in great condition is a quest.

In summary, the question isn't the age of the speakers, the question is how good did they sound originally and does it make sense for you to own them now?

 

[Mikado463]

In summary, the question isn't the age of the speakers, the question is how good did they sound originally and does it make sense for you to own them now?

and to that, how well did they age .........

 

[mep]

and to that, how well did they age .........

You would have to hear them and then you tell me. The fact they are in my system and they put a smile on my face every time I play music is telling. My NOLA KOs are crated and ready to ship when I can find a buyer. I won’t be selling my 4345s.