What's next after Sasha's ??? A new endeavor

I thnk Verity is a likely speaker given the requirements and contrast with the Wilson Sasha. If I was in Europe the small Cessaro horns would need a listen. Good luck.
 
Cellindo said:
Obviously Magico could be on my list too with the S3/S5. However I never ever had a satisfying demo with this brand. Maybe I just don't like the Soulution (or souless ...) electronics.
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You can easily try to Accuphase - Magico match and I am confident that you will be delighted. Magico with Soulution is a pretty good sound and I even understand people who have such a combine BUT that's totally not my cup of tea.
These speakers literally love strong amplifiers which are musical and warm a bit, so A class is the best.
For your great A-70 you can try S3 or S5 (maybe Q3, but you can dont like this kind of hyper neutrality).
Ofcourse I say that as an owner of Accuphase/Magico system. Now I just wait for S7 model from Magico and think about pairing A-200 monoblocks with them. (well, unless I will betray Accuphase and go for somethin else like Vitus :) )

BTW. Hello for everyone. This is my first answer on the forum :)
 
Cellindo said:
Hi JackD

A good friend of mine told me excellent feedback regarding the VR speakers.
However, the larger models are certainly not available in France where I live. Maybe in other Eurepean countries ...

Thanks anyway. I will try to experience the VR speakers at the Munich High-End Show next month !
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Hi Cellindo

They will be showing in Munich with KR Audio so that would be in the same ballpark power wise as your amps. The dealer in France is EERA. I'm not sure what Didier has in stock. Ibex in Germany and Musical Reality in the Benelux should have at least 44s on hand. Enjoy the show! I've always wanted to attend. Maybe someday!
 
vagabundo said:
Ofcourse I say that as an owner of Accuphase/Magico system. Now I just wait for S7 model from Magico and think about pairing A-200 monoblocks with them. (well, unless I will betray Accuphase and go for somethin else like Vitus :) )

BTW. Hello for everyone. This is my first answer on the forum :)
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Welcome to the forum Vagabundom :hi:. The S7's paired with A-200 mono's would sound awesome i'm sure. Tell us a bit about your rig? What gear do you own?

Cheers,
Bodhi.
 
vagabundo said:
You can easily try to Accuphase - Magico match and I am confident that you will be delighted. Magico with Soulution is a pretty good sound and I even understand people who have such a combine BUT that's totally not my cup of tea.
These speakers literally love strong amplifiers which are musical and warm a bit, so A class is the best.
For your great A-70 you can try S3 or S5 (maybe Q3, but you can dont like this kind of hyper neutrality).
Ofcourse I say that as an owner of Accuphase/Magico system. Now I just wait for S7 model from Magico and think about pairing A-200 monoblocks with them. (well, unless I will betray Accuphase and go for somethin else like Vitus :) )

BTW. Hello for everyone. This is my first answer on the forum :)
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Welcome to AS!
 
Hi guys, thanks for the nice welcome :)

My system - Magico S5, Accuphase A-65 'monoblocks' (bridged), Accuphase C-2810 Preamplifier and Accuphase DP-720 as source. I use a full set of Siltech cables from the middle of price list :)
I love the sound, as you can see I'm a fan of Japanese audio, but I know that this is not the peak of Accuphase magnificence.
My target system... well, I dream about 900/901 - 3800 - A200 with bigger speakers. Fortunately Magico recently announced S7 model so I just smiled after this news.

On the other hand, I know that technology moves forward, there are a lot of comapnies makes high tech sources (dcs, msb, etc) and astonishing amplifiers (soulution, vitus, dartzeel). Next thing - digital music will dominate the market soon.
But at the moment I just love beautiful, relaxing, dimensional, transparent and dynamic sound which gives me the full Accuphase system with Magico speakers. I believe that exactly thanks to my speakers I got to know the beauty of music presented by the Japanese manufacturer.

Sorry for offtopic! Anyway, my highest recommendation for Magico/Accuphase match.
 
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Dear Vagabundo.

Interesting point of pairing Accuphase with Magico. Never ever seen that in a shop or show floor.
Do you think one A-65 would be enough for the S5, as I don't have enough rack space for two (bridged) amps ? The S5 has the right size and price point.

I remain always worried that all Magico speakers sound 'slow' (my experience during shows, so far). They are always uber transparent and have magnificient timbres but notes attack is just not realistic enough compared to live music.

thanks in advance for your comments about speed and only one A-65.
 
I am convinced that a single A-65 is sufficient for S5. Class A amplifiers have big transformers and even a small amount of power is enough. I've heard that people successfully combine Magico S5 even with 25 watt amplifier Vitus SIA-025 (25W pure class A). Remeber that you have 29m2. I would try even S3 model, S5 may be too big (I have S5 on 60m2 and there is a lot of music in my room :) )

You are talking about the speed... Maybe my opinion will not appeal to many people, but I think that 50% of systems playing at audio shows are misconfigured. You also need to take into account the fact that the conditions of the exhibition leaves much to be desired. Add to that the different tastes of people.

No, Magico speakers never been slow. These are the fastest, most transparent speakers on the market. They will play exactly as your source and amplifier and if there is something you don't like it means that something is wrong with the system.

Try to get Magicos to your home. If you dont like them, then you should try maybe something from Rockport or Focal.

Edit. If you want some really and absolutely neutral, transparent and fast then try Q series :) But if you like soul and richness of your Accuphase gear you may not like Q speakers. Some guys says that these have lack of punch in the bass. IMO - not true, but S sreies is more... hmm... enjoyable :)
 
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I agree the Magico S series sound best with warm, harmonically rich Class A or A/B amps. A high end audio engineer told me as a rule of thumb the best ss amps tend to be heavy due mainly to their large, robust power supplies. He also told me headline figures such as watts/channel are not a good measure of an amplifiers ability to control a given speaker load. Current and stability are the more important considerations. The Vitus SIA-025 is both heavy (42kg) and extremely efficient (losing <1.5% voltage max tested). Vitus also quote their power figures in "true rms" which is a tougher measurement. No complaints from me!

The S3 is best suited to small to small-medium size rooms imho. The S5 is best suited to medium to medium-large rooms, whilst the S7, M Pro & Q7 are best suited to medium-large and large rooms where they can open up and shine. Agreed, system synergy is key as is room setup. And most show setups are under-done, have poor acoustics, or have mismatched amps, front end equipment or cables (almost like it was an after thought). Magico showed what you can do at CES 2014 with a well thought out setup.

The S5's are certainly fast and transparent, though not quite as much as the Crystal Arabesque with its excellent RAAL ribbon tweeter & faceted glass cabinet, however the S5's are more coherent overall, warmer and have better control, depth & texture from the mids down. Ultimatey the S5 is the more rewarding and exciting speaker overall. Though damn that RAAL tweeter is good! No wonder Magico went on to develop the diamond-coated beryllium tweet.
 
Bodhi +10 :)
I have nothing else to add!

If we talk about the tweeters alone then I think that the best one is in Raidho Speakers. Extremely fast, 3-dimensional, rich and life like. But overall Magico speakers are the best what I have heard.
 
vagabundo said:
Bodhi +10 :)
I have nothing else to add!

If we talk about the tweeters alone then I think that the best one is in Raidho Speakers. Extremely fast, 3-dimensional, rich and life like. But overall Magico speakers are the best what I have heard.
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Sorry my vote goes to the Magnepan ribbon. I'll also add that few have really heard what the Maggie ribbon can do because the cap used limits its sound. Nor should the NOLA ribbon tweeter that extends out to 100 kHz be overlooked either.
 
Since you are going to MUnich, don't miss out on the Zellaton room. Zellaton has a variety of speakers at different price points, and do not need the ultra priced electronics to sound great. I have been using the Zellaton Emotions now for 2 1/2 years and have had great results with inexpensive gear. The Job 225 amp sounds fantastic, I even have a $500 integrated here that sounds wonderful.

My biggest complaint with the amps that I have tried are with the Class D amps. But even that has changed since I now have the $2400 DAC Marashino Class D mono amps hooked up. These amps sounds incredible with these Emotions and are now my favorites.

Zellaton keeps getting many of the top honors at Munich, I am sure this year will be another one of those years.
 
ozarktom said:
Since you are going to MUnich, don't miss out on the Zellaton room. Zellaton has a variety of speakers at different price points, and do not need the ultra priced electronics to sound great. I have been using the Zellaton Emotions now for 2 1/2 years and have had great results with inexpensive gear. The Job 225 amp sounds fantastic, I even have a $500 integrated here that sounds wonderful.

My biggest complaint with the amps that I have tried are with the Class D amps. But even that has changed since I now have the $2400 DAC Marashino Class D mono amps hooked up. These amps sounds incredible with these Emotions and are now my favorites.

Zellaton keeps getting many of the top honors at Munich, I am sure this year will be another one of those years.
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These smaller Zellaton are definitively on my Must Audition List. Also I will add the Magico S3 now and the Kharma with their new Carbon drivers.
 
kiwi_1282001 said:
With your stated priority of “connecting to the music” in an emotive way and with a preference to drive the speaker with a 60 watt Accuphase A-65 amplifier thereby narrowing the search to efficient circa 90 dB / 1M / 2.82 v with high average impedance designs – I encourage you to audition the Nola KO loudspeaker. Don’t be put off by its low price tag, yes, it less than ½ the price of your current Wilson Sasha’s and perhaps not as pleasing to the eye – but I’ve found this loudspeaker to be unfailingly musical. I’ve also had the pleasure of auditioning some of Nola’s grand reference speakers and they are capable of greater incision and visceral impact but do not deliver more satisfaction (IMHO).
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I DO like the Nola brand and in particular the Baby Grand model which is, unfortunately, out of my financial reach. I will try to audition some less expensive models including the KO's.
 
Mike said:
There are many great brands, and many great choices. But what I read into your comments is that you are looking for an efficient musical speaker, a speaker with soul, a speaker that can capture the passion of the moment the music was created, as opposed to the "audiophile sounds" type speaker that checks all the audiophile boxes of bass control, separation, using the latest man made materials, etc. If that's correct, I would suggest:

1. Sonus Faber Anniversario. Sounds like Strads, has a wonderful musical presentation and a soul, but with a more conventional look. I believe they have been discontinued, so you will need to find a used pair. They come in the Violin finish or the Graphite.

Here is a video: http://youtu.be/UgKVT8NYZok

2. Focal Scala V2 Utopia III - very efficient to drive and my wife loves it's look! Maybe yours will too. But, requires a good 350-500 hours of break in. This is what I own in my family room.

3. Sonus Faber Stradivari - yes, it is wide, but it is beautiful, and efficient. A masterpiece from the master. That's what I own in my main listening room and the new "Red" finish is jaw dropping gorgeous.

4. Sonus Faber Olympica III - one of the few newer Sonus Fabers to have recaptured some of the magic of the old Sonus Fabers IMO.

5. See what comes out at Axpona and Munich.
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after the love affair with Raidho, seems no one is recommending the brand.
 
Cellindo said:
(...)

* I want to retain the following positive attributes of the Sasha's ie. High level of transparency, excellent sound stage, bass well controled which is not exciting my 29 m2 room (with 3.5 m, high celling and very solid walls), really great PRAT.

* The point I miss the most with the Sasha's is a lack of 'presence', immediacy and sense of 'freedom' for the Music. The Wilson speakers propose an intellectual way of rendering the musical feeling. It is up to me to make the effort to listen. What I'm looking for is a more immediate connection to the Music, having no effort (even inconscient) to do and being immersed into the musical event. In one word, despite lots of great audiophile qualities, the Sasha's are musically too "introverted" for my new tastes.

*
(...)
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Properly matched and setup the Wilson Sasha's can have 'presence', immediacy and sense of 'freedom'. A good friend owned a pair in a beautiful metallic orange hue and it had them in lots (he now owns Sasha2). If your system does not show it the justification should be in the system, small details included, room and/or setup.

I have no experience with your Accuphase amplifier and do not know the details of your system - IMHO even cabling is of great importance in order to get the sense of freedom you are asking for. Again IMHO it is very easy to point great speakers - any of us has a preferred and disliked list :) - but it is not easy to assemble and setup a complete system in a room. And remember that only by chance you will be able to get all you want just by taking out the old speakers and replacing them with new ones. You must have spent a long time and effort optimizing your current system - it is now tuned for your current speakers.
 
microstrip said:
Properly matched and setup the Wilson Sasha's can have 'presence', immediacy and sense of 'freedom'. A good friend owned a pair in a beautiful metallic orange hue and it had them in lots (he now owns Sasha2). If your system does not show it the justification should be in the system, small details included, room and/or setup.

I have no experience with your Accuphase amplifier and do not know the details of your system - IMHO even cabling is of great importance in order to get the sense of freedom you are asking for. Again IMHO it is very easy to point great speakers - any of us has a preferred and disliked list :) - but it is not easy to assemble and setup a complete system in a room. And remember that only by chance you will be able to get all you want just by taking out the old speakers and replacing them with new ones. You must have spent a long time and effort optimizing your current system - it is now tuned for your current speakers.
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Dear microstrip.

I indeed spent 4 - 1/2 years optimizing everything around the Sasha's. The source is a dCS Vivaldi (not much to complain...) with a DiY Linux base PC audio server. All and every cables from power to USB have been very very carefuly selected. Only the room is unchanged as it is the living room and I cannot apply any acoustic treatment.

I now know all the qualities of the Sasha's (and there are many actually). I also know the little weaknesses that bother me at this moment. And I realise how difficult it will be to find a 'better' speaker still matching my system set-up and room acoustic. I also realize that cabling will most certainly some work or complete revamping with a new pair of speakers. The only stability shall be for the amplifier and source, and possibly keeping also my Shindo Monbrison preamplifier.
 
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