What to Upgrade next?

T

tmoody

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Apr 1, 2018
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Hi All,

A little background - I'm pushing 50, and have a long history as an audio lover that morphed over the years into a love of home theater. As an unintended consequence, my 2-channel listening shrunk nearly to nil, and vinyl long since to absolute zero.


About a year ago however my wife uncovered my old record collection...mostly rock, classic rock, early rap (talking late 70s - early 80s) as well as some crooners, big band, and a little jazz and classical. I decided to set up a 2-channel rig completely separate from my theater to see if the hobby was one to which I would return. I used to spend hours browsing the racks at the Tower Records (RIP) on E4th in NYC, run home with a new album or two, rip open the shrink wrap, and sit for hours just listening to the music. No reading, chores, or anything else. Just listening. Those were the days.


I started modestly, using a pair of Diva Swan 4.1's I had on hand, a new Marantz 8005, and a U-Turn audio TT with Grado Blue1 cart and in-built phono stage. Lo and Behold, not only have I resumed my old listening habits, but, to my delight, I've also started purchasing vinyl again - mostly 180g releases and re-releases of music I 'skipped' during the CD and now streaming eras. My wife thinks it's weird when I sit in the sweet spot and do nothing but listen to music, but ultimately she's supportive.


Of course, the entire experience left me wanting MORE.


I recently upgraded to a pair of KEF Reference 3's and a Pass Labs INT-60. That leaves my poor little U-Turn and its phono stage as my front end. From a cost standpoint, it's certainly the odd man out. I'm not sure if its quality is 'awful' per se as I've not been able to hear high end vinyl rigs with my speakers and amp. It was fine with the Marantz and Swans, but I can't help but think I'm leaving a lot on the table (heh) here.


Which leads me to my current dilemma. Do I get a new TT? A new cart for the existing one? A new phono stage? For the moment, the KEFs and Pass have left me somewhat out of funds, but I don't want to do "nothing" right now.


So, I wanted to pick the brains and tap the experiences of those here. I've had set ups recommended to me at different price points, e.g.:
- Planar 6 + Ania MC + Rega Fono MC for about $3k
- VPI Prime Scout + Ortofon 2M Black for about $3k before a phono stage


Others have insisted that my speakers and amp warrant (and would reveal the benefits of) a VPI Prime, or Rega RP8 or 10 with Gyrodec or Orbe.


I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a TT regardless, though, I'm already in for a bit on the other components.


Given all the above - and sorry again for the length - what do you gents and ladies think I ought to do? My inclination is to stay in the MM realm, but could be talked out of it.


Anyway, I'm somewhat all over the place. Sorry for that. I'll leave it there and hope for some thoughts.


Best,
Tony
 
WELCOME TO AS!

The VPI Prime Scout is a fine turntable. I agree with others about the Prime, but to be honest, the real big step up is the Prime Signature.

With REF3’s and a INT-60, you have a real nice system.

For a phonostage, check out the iFi Phono for not a lot of money. A step up from that would be the Manley Chinook.

As for cartridges, there is nothing wrong with a good MM, but a good MC is on a different level in terms of detail retrieval, tone, etc.

A VPI Prime or Prime Signature with an Ortofon Cadenza Black and a Manley Chinook would be insanely good and at the level of your REF3’s and INT-60.
 
Great story Tony and nice to hear you enjoy vinyl. I would tend to agree that the superb INT-60 and the Ref 3’s are begging for more.

I would maybe try to get a package deal on a Technics SL-1200G or an EAT C-Sharp with an Ortofon Quintet Black. A Prime Signature with an Ortofon Cadenza would be a step-up from that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Seems like your budget is around $3k. With that in mind consider the Clearaudio Concept which will come with a cartridge option, and then, a Musical Surroundings Phenominon 2

If not able to listen to some turntable rigs, read some reviews and cartridge comparisons to get a feel for the type of sound they have. As an example, a Grado will about opposite spectrum to an Ortofon. You want a capable table and phono stage but the cart will pretty much dictate much of the sonic character of the system. Don't get me wrong, each link in the chain will effect the sound in some way, it's just carts can vary quite a bit in sound and they are the first link in the chain.

If you are spending the cost of today's new LP's, you should have a quality rig to play them on. :)
 
Thanks so much for the thoughts everyone. Have to get around and do some test listening. I wish I could do that at home...what a great service that would be.
 
From my experience the KEF reference like a lot of power. You may want to look at upgrading to amps. My reference 5’s came alive when I switched to the Bryston 28b3 monos


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The Rega and VPI are great options. I would also take a look at the ClearAudio Concept, Music Hall MMF 7.3, 9.3 and Pro-ject Xtension 9 as well.

I would include the HANA SL MC cartridge, It punches above its price point. They also have a lower priced Cartridge.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/hana-sl-mc-750-versus-ortofon-quintet-black-s-mc-999

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...n-hana-e-and-s-series-moving-coil-cartridges/

I agree with Mike on the IFI phono preamp. It is a good budget preamp. I auditioned one in my system and it sounds good. It did not sound better than an AVA HiFi phono pre that I compared it too. TAS loves the AVA HiFi pre. Some one at the Needle Doctor said that it beats out all their phono pre's that sell for under $1K.

https://www.needledoctor.com/analog/analog-components/phono-preamplifiers/brand/Van-Alstine

I would also take a look at Tavish Design phono pre and the Pro-ject RS reference phono pre if you are looking for a warmer sound with Balanced outputs. There was a nice write up in Stereophile Magazine a couple of months ago on the Tavish. These 2 are on my short list when I decide to upgrade.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/pro-ject’s-mmmc-phono-box-rs-chronic-overachiever

There are lots of great choices out there, have fun!
 
Phishphan said:
From my experience the KEF reference like a lot of power. You may want to look at upgrading to amps. My reference 5’s came alive when I switched to the Bryston 28b3 monos


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

He said he just upgraded his amp and his speakers. He's looking for advice on a turntable, cartridge, and phono stage.
 
Phishphan said:
From my experience the KEF reference like a lot of power. You may want to look at upgrading to amps. My reference 5’s came alive when I switched to the Bryston 28b3 monos


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

mep said:
He said he just upgraded his amp and his speakers. He's looking for advice on a turntable, cartridge, and phono stage.
Click to expand...

Yes I think I'm set for now on the amp front. Interestingly, the Pass is rated "only" to 60WPC, with the first 30 in Class A. The combo is absolutely spectacular.

Mechnutt said:
The Rega and VPI are great options. I would also take a look at the ClearAudio Concept, Music Hall MMF 7.3, 9.3 and Pro-ject Xtension 9 as well.

I would include the HANA SL MC cartridge, It punches above its price point. They also have a lower priced Cartridge.



I agree with Mike on the IFI phono preamp. It is a good budget preamp. I auditioned one in my system and it sounds good. It did not sound better than an AVA HiFi phono pre that I compared it too. TAS loves the AVA HiFi pre. Some one at the Needle Doctor said that it beats out all their phono pre's that sell for under $1K.



I would also take a look at Tavish Design phono pre and the Pro-ject RS reference phono pre if you are looking for a warmer sound with Balanced outputs. There was a nice write up in Stereophile Magazine a couple of months ago on the Tavish. These 2 are on my short list when I decide to upgrade.



There are lots of great choices out there, have fun!
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of this. Am due soon to get a couple of Graham Sleep phono stages in, via their loaner program (a fantastic opportunity to test in home with ones own gear btw, you just pay for the shipping). I've also had the Technics 1200G highly recommended to me...

Looks like I have a lot of searching out and listening to do.
 
the new Mofi deck would be a top consideration for me - looks really good compared to its competitors. $2k including cartridge.

i'd also try to hear the 1200GR.
 
KeithR said:
the new Mofi deck would be a top consideration for me - looks really good compared to its competitors. $2k including cartridge.

i'd also try to hear the 1200GR.
Click to expand...

Cool thanks - intend to check that one out as well.
 
Ah Mr. P fancy meeting you here. That sounds like a nice analog setup you recommended. I looked at the Clearaudio Concept with the Concept MC cartridge and you're not the first to recommend the MS Phenominon. Good to see you. Jack​

Mr Peabody said:
Seems like your budget is around $3k. With that in mind consider the Clearaudio Concept which will come with a cartridge option, and then, a Musical Surroundings Phenominon 2
If not able to listen to some turntable rigs, read some reviews and cartridge comparisons to get a feel for the type of sound they have. As an example, a Grado will about opposite spectrum to an Ortofon. You want a capable table and phono stage but the cart will pretty much dictate much of the sonic character of the system. Don't get me wrong, each link in the chain will effect the sound in some way, it's just carts can vary quite a bit in sound and they are the first link in the chain.

Ah Mr. P fancy meeting you here. That sounds like a nice analog setup you recommended. I looked at the Clearaudio Concept with the Concept MC cartridge and you're not the first to recommend the MS Phenominon. Good to see you. Jack
If you are spending the cost of today's new LP's, you should have a quality rig to play them on. :)
Click to expand...
 
I agree on the Music Hall MMF 7.3 and 9.3 as I've just ordered the 9.3 and the Concept and Pro-Ject were in the running along with the VPI Prime Scout.

Mechnutt said:
The Rega and VPI are great options. I would also take a look at the ClearAudio Concept, Music Hall MMF 7.3, 9.3 and Pro-ject Xtension 9 as well.

I would include the HANA SL MC cartridge, It punches above its price point. They also have a lower priced Cartridge.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/hana-sl-mc-750-versus-ortofon-quintet-black-s-mc-999

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...n-hana-e-and-s-series-moving-coil-cartridges/

I agree with Mike on the IFI phono preamp. It is a good budget preamp. I auditioned one in my system and it sounds good. It did not sound better than an AVA HiFi phono pre that I compared it too. TAS loves the AVA HiFi pre. Some one at the Needle Doctor said that it beats out all their phono pre's that sell for under $1K.

https://www.needledoctor.com/analog/analog-components/phono-preamplifiers/brand/Van-Alstine

I would also take a look at Tavish Design phono pre and the Pro-ject RS reference phono pre if you are looking for a warmer sound with Balanced outputs. There was a nice write up in Stereophile Magazine a couple of months ago on the Tavish. These 2 are on my short list when I decide to upgrade.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/pro-ject’s-mmmc-phono-box-rs-chronic-overachiever

There are lots of great choices out there, have fun!
Click to expand...
 
Jack in Wilmington said:
Looking at your gear and I thought it might be you. This is like a class reunion, but it feels better as it doesn't feel like they're closing the school. Any new gear that I'm missing, as I look at your list?
Click to expand...


Not much new except my TT since AR. I built a Pass B1 pre/buffer which I gave to my son and I am currently building a Pass Labs Bride of Son of Zen balanced preamp. I recently built a custom dedicated audio desktop which took my digital to another level of refinement. Also added a second sub and recently bought an LPS to use with my Regen.
 
You are talented my friend.

Mechnutt said:
Not much new except my TT since AR. I built a Pass B1 pre/buffer which I gave to my son and I am currently building a Pass Labs Bride of Son of Zen balanced preamp. I recently built a custom dedicated audio desktop which took my digital to another level of refinement. Also added a second sub and recently bought an LPS to use with my Regen.
Click to expand...
 
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