What...the...hell???

CDLehner

CDLehner

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Is wrong with my system?

Warning...the following post, has so much box-swapping; you're liable to get whiplash :|

OK...so I had my Aurender N100 (not that new), feeding my Oppo HA-1 DAC; running into the Aesthetix Calypso pre (with new-ish tubes), into Wyred4Sound mAMPS. The mAMPS are recent arrivals, and will probably end up in a second system powering KEF LS-50s; but I had them in the main rig, making sure they worked as advertised, and getting some run-in time.

Saturday morning...I made a dreaded mistake: I'm usually very, very good...about turning my gear on/off in the right order. But with the new Wyreds, being so low-consumption; I left them on after Friday night's session. So when I powered up the Calypso, Saturday morning, they were already on. Now, I've made this mistake...maybe twice, in 15 years; and I got a little "pop". Not the Calypso; the first pop, was "mighty"...it had good volume and weight. And right about the time, I was exhaling...and hoping nothing had fried; it made a second, even louder pop...after the warm-up circuit disengaged!

But...listening proved to be uneventful. Granted...I only listened for a few minutes, to make sure everything was "OK", and then went about my business; leaving the system un-attended...to further "run-in".

Then...my new Auralic Vega DAC arrived, so I put it into the loops. I let it, and the rest of the rig, also warm up some; and then came back, later in the evening, for a long listening session. Everything sounded fine; actually outstanding...the Vega is KILLER! But then maybe an hour into my session; something went wrong.

I started hearing this "crackling", and distortion; almost like clipping...but I was playing at a wholly reasonable level. First thing I thought, was speakers; I had indeed "fried" something earlier...and it was only now rearing its head. But...it was in both speakers; and both kicked in delayed, and at the same time? Didn't seem likely, and I've since been told by a reputable "speaker guy"...that it isn't.

I then exhaled, because I thought for sure it must be a bad tube; I've had tubes go bad before, and that "tube rush"...can sound weird, and hard to identify. And this seemed in that ballpark...and as issues go, a bad tube is a relatively simple one. So...I swapped the Calypso out, for my Pass XP-10. Damn...the issue remained.

Next was the DAC; so I swapped in the old Oppo HA-1...issue remained. Then I took the mAMPS out of the equation, by going back to the Pass XA-30.8. Issue was gone. Hmm...not sure why the issue with the mAMPS, but even that was better news...than "blown" speakers.

So I sat and listened, for like another 30-60 minutes; and hell if the issue didn't come back! It's almost as if something was "over-heating"...and the swapping didn't solve the issue; just gave it time to dissipate. After a spell, it came back...even though I was listening, to practically an entirely different system!

If you lost track on your score-card...the only component that remained between the two; were the Aurender...the PS Audio UPC-200 power-conditioner, and ALL PCs and ICs.

Yikes :( Any thoughts??
 
It's the amps or the speakers. Was your preamp muted when you powered it on when your amps were already powered up or did your amps suffer through and amplify the sound of your preamp as it warmed up and the tubes started conducting?
 
mep said:
It's the amps or the speakers. Was your preamp muted when you powered it on when your amps were already powered up or did your amps suffer through and amplify the sound of your preamp as it warmed up and the tubes started conducting?
Click to expand...

The Calypso, puts itself in mute...after warm-up; so yes...the pre-amp was muted. How could it be "the amps", when it did it with both Wyred mAMPS and the Pass XA-30.8?

So it's the speakers; but seriously...they both do the same thing, at the exact same time. Perplexing; I'm not convinced. :S
 
Are you running the mAMPS single ended or balanced to the Calypso?

Try the opposite of what you have now and test.

edit: this suggestion is to address the "pop" not the other blown-tube sound you are hearing.
 
I would start at the source. Can you try a PC in place of your Aurender? Perhaps change out the USB cable?
 
So what all was plugged into the PS Audio power conditioner? If your amps were plugged into it, maybe it was damaged. Look, if you power your system on and everything sounds fine for awhile until it doesn't sound fine anymore, something is heating up and going out of spec causing the issue. Speakers don't self heal so if you damaged them, they would remain damaged and would sound distorted from the get-go.
 
Davkj said:
I would start at the source. Can you try a PC in place of your Aurender? Perhaps change out the USB cable?
Click to expand...

I can put my Squeezebox Touch in place of the Aurender. I think I'll try that second; after switching ICs.

mep said:
So what all was plugged into the PS Audio power conditioner? If your amps were plugged into it, maybe it was damaged. Look, if you power your system on and everything sounds fine for awhile until it doesn't sound fine anymore, something is heating up and going out of spec causing the issue. Speakers don't self heal so if you damaged them, they would remain damaged and would sound distorted from the get-go.
Click to expand...

Mep, I'm not trying to challenge you; it's a weird one. Just stating some facts.
 
CDLehner said:
I can put my Squeezebox Touch in place of the Aurender. I think I'll try that second; after switching ICs.



Mep, I'm not trying to challenge you; it's a weird one. Just stating some facts.
Click to expand...

What was plugged into your PS Audio power conditioner? If the amps were, remove the PS Audio power conditioner from your system and turn your system on.
 
It is possible that a ground wire broke on one of the IC's. I had that happen on a pair of AQ IC's and it blew out a tweeter in one of my son's PSB speakers.

Is the crackling sound coming from both Channels? If so that rules out the speakers.
 
mep said:
What was plugged into your PS Audio power conditioner? If the amps were, remove the PS Audio power conditioner from your system and turn your system on.
Click to expand...

The amps were NOT on the PSA conditioner.

Mechnutt said:
It is possible that a ground wire broke on one of the IC's. I had that happen on a pair for AQ IC's and it blew out a tweeter in one of my son's PSB speakers.

Is the crackling sound coming from both Channels? If so that rules out the speakers.
Click to expand...

The sound is coming from both speakers; and that's what someone else told me. That (kinda) rules out the speakers. He also said, he had the same issue at a show once...and it did turn out to be cables. Here's hoping.

12:55p EST-

Aurender > Vega > XP-10 > mAMPS...but unbalanced ICs between pre and power amps; and things sound fine.

Stay tuned.
 
OK...so I'm no EE; but maybe one of you technical types, can help me out here?

Still so far, so good. So let's say the issue, lies somewhere in the balanced circuit; since switching the pre-amp to power connection, is now unbalanced. That leaves us the balanced out/in ports on the pre and power amps; but I think we rule those out, because...it happened Calypso to mAMPS, XP-10 to mAMPS, and XP-10 to XA-30.8.

That leaves the XLR cables themselves. Is it really possible, I "fried" something (mech suggested maybe a grounding wire came loose) in both of them; that "stopped", and then started again...at the same time??

This is bugging the hell out of me :mad:
 
I will get a similar "pop" sometimes from my Calypso depending on what power amplifier is in use when choosing to use Balanced connections. Using SE IC's in those instances has fixed the issue each time for me.

Unfortunately, in consumer audio there is no real standard for designing balanced signal topologies. Some manufacturers may offer chassis XLR connections that are psuedo-balanced for convenience sake, some manufacturers may offer "truly balanced" designs but not all of them follow the same design principles so even if there are claims of "true balanced", not all of them may play nice with each other.

In other words, using balanced connections between ONE manufacturers amps, preamps and source units is generally a great idea and should work well but using balanced connections between differing brands of gear is a dice roll. You may get lucky that it works, but don't be surprised if it isn't ideal.

Question: Are the balanced IC's you're playing with today (and yesterday) when things went wonky the same balanced IC pair that were in place say, a month ago when the issues (either the pop or the bust-tube-like noise) didn't exist?
 
soundqcar said:
Is there a smaller rig in the house you can drop those balanced cables into to proof them out?
Click to expand...

Great minds think alike! I'm in IT...and I'm never satisfied, to just change something and fix the issue (well hardly ever, lol); to be 100% certain, you must duplicate the issue, by putting the thing that you suspect fixed it...back into play.

Unfortunately no; I don't have another system in the house, that has balanced connectors.

MikeCh said:
I will get a similar "pop" sometimes from my Calypso depending on what power amplifier is in use when choosing to use Balanced connections. Unfortunately, in consumer audio there is no real standard for designing balanced signal topologies. Some manufacturers may offer chassis XLR connections that are psuedo-balanced for convenience sake, some manufacturers may offer "truly balanced" designs but not all of them follow the same design principles so even if there are claims of "true balanced", not all of them may play nice with each other.

In other words, using balanced connections between ONE manufacturers amps, preamps and source units is generally a great idea and should work well but using balanced connections between differing brands of gear is a dice roll. You may get lucky that it works, but don't be surprised if it isn't ideal.

Question: Are the balanced IC's you're playing with today (and yesterday) when things went wonky the same balanced IC pair that were in place say, a month ago when the issues (either the pop or the bust-tube-like noise) didn't exist?
Click to expand...

Hmm...that's an interesting take Mike. Never heard that before...but it does kind of stand to reason to me; again...not being an EE (does impedance having anything to do with it as well?)

For the record...the 2 "pops", from having the amps on and turning the Calypso from off to on; happened yesterday morning...not "say a month ago". So yes...these were the same ICs (WyWires Blue).
 
CDLehner said:
does impedance having anything to do with it as well?
Click to expand...

It shouldn't. I believe the pop comes from the muting circuit and how voltage is applied at turn on once the warming cycle is complete. I've found one of two things to do when using the Calypso balanced into a "mis-matched" power amp when the pop is noticed....One: make sure the Calypso is powered on with the power amp(s) off and let it sit for 15 minutes or so to stabilize before turning the power amp(s) on. Warming it up for a bit seems to help minimize but not eradicate the pop. Two: use SE IC's with the same pairing if the pop is unacceptable.


CDLehner said:
For the record...the 2 "pops", from having the amps on and turning the Calypso from off to on; happened yesterday morning...not "say a month ago". So yes...these were the same ICs (WyWires Blue).
Click to expand...

But, the mAMP's are new to the mix, right? They are the wildcard. Did the Calypso "pop" happen when you were using a different amp or amps before the mAMP's were dropped in to the mix? Or has the Calypso only been paired with the mAMP's since its arrival?
 
MikeCh said:
It shouldn't. I believe the pop comes from the muting circuit and how voltage is applied at turn on once the warming cycle is complete. I've found one of two things to do when using the Calypso balanced into a "mis-matched" power amp when the pop is noticed....One: make sure the Calypso is powered on with the power amp(s) off and let it sit for 15 minutes or so to stabilize before turning the power amp(s) on. Warming it up for a bit seems to help minimize but not eradicate the pop. Two: use SE IC's with the same pairing if the pop is unacceptable.

But, the mAMP's are new to the mix, right? They are the wildcard. Did the Calypso "pop" happen when you were using a different amp or amps before the mAMP's were dropped in to the mix? Or has the Calypso only been paired with the mAMP's since its arrival?
Click to expand...

No...the Calypso was used for a few days, with the XA; with no issue. But I think you're focusing too much on the "pop", and how to eliminate it. I never had the pop before...because I always turn things on and off, in the right order.

I'm trying to figure out what lasting issue, the "pop" caused.
 
CDLehner said:
No...the Calypso was used for a few days, with the XA; with no issue. But I think you're focusing too much on the "pop", and how to eliminate it. I never had the pop before...because I always turn things on and off, in the right order.

I'm trying to figure out what lasting issue, the "pop" caused.
Click to expand...

The only that will ferret out the noise issue then will be your linear troubleshooting to fix it, break it, fix it in order to prove the bad seed.
 
I think that your system did not like the in coming Vega DAC and rebelled. I think you should send the Vega to me:sneaky:
 
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