What is your reference?

Mike

Mike

Audioshark
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You're making changes to your system. You're evaluating new speakers. You're contemplating a switch to tube amps or solid state. You're thinking a new DAC will get you closer. Cables...oh yeah...those too.

When you're considering a change, what are you using as your point of reference? A friends system? A dealers system? An amalgamation of all the live concerts you've heard? Can you even remember?

For me, I played sax for over 30 years. I played in 20+ piece Big Bands and I played in small jazz ensembles. I know what a terrific percussion section sounds like. I know what 5 trumpets and trombones blowing behind your head sounds like.

What about you? What's your reference?
 
Really good question. I'm not so sure this is a reference but . . . .

Mine I guess is the "toe tap" method. Ultimately, does it make me tap my toe more. Does it convey the emotion of the music. Does the music grab you.
 
Live acoustic instruments , Symphony orchestras, unamplified live jazz ensembles, my own studio recordings ...

And since no hi fi system can sounds as real , ear/Brain Compromise :)
 
a.wayne said:
Live acoustic instruments , Symphony orchestras, unamplified live jazz ensembles, my own studio recordings ...

And since no hi fi system can sounds as real , ear/Brain Compromise :)
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Exactly this. The problem is many audiophiles have their reference set to their own system (due to listening to it regularly). So, every change to that system becomes an improvement, when it is not really significant. Ideally, one should be going to a lot of live concerts, not have a speaker (hey I don't have one right now :)), and then fly around to check whose system sounds closest to the live. Well, that's how I ended up, so that is my reference to set a reference system
 
My system when I was 15 pair of Maggie's driven by modified hafler amp connected to nad preamp with empire 698 table. Rickie Lee Jones "Pirates" playing. Rickie was in the room with me.


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Dpod4 said:
My system when I was 15 pair of Maggie's driven by modified hafler amp connected to nad preamp with empire 698 table. Rickie Lee Jones "Pirates" playing. Rickie was in the room with me.


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Click to expand...

A digital version of RLJ was in the room with you.
 
Mike said:
For me, I played sax for over 30 years. I played in 20+ piece Big Bands and I played in small jazz ensembles. I know what a terrific percussion section sounds like. I know what 5 trumpets and trombones blowing behind your head sounds like.

What about you? What's your reference?
Click to expand...
After live recitals, my friend's Magico S7/Vitus Signature/MP series/Kronos Reference/Stillpoints/Telos system. Hearing his system for the first time recently was eye opening!
 
In my case, what I hear or do not hear in various systems, what I do enjoy about them and definitely the toe tapping factor. A system can be superb in some respect, but if the music does not engage me I rather do something else.

Criteria that get my toes tapping are typically definition, clarity, dynamics, extension on both ends, transparent highs and bass with punch and articulation, as well as authenticity of sound. Off-putters are sharpness, flatness and lack of speed (slow rise time).

I also do play mostly electric guitar and searched 15 years until I found my sound. Spending a lots of time in the opera as a kid (way more than rock/ pop/ jazz concerts) has further helped me develop appreciation for good vocals.

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Can we or should we be using a friends system as a point of reference? Hmmm....
 
It is about information gathering. As such any system, whether a friend's, a dealer/ manufacturer demo or a show display can serve as a point of reference. Of course, definitive input is only obtained when hearing a component in your own system, within your own chain and the acoustic environment available to you.

In case of a categorical dismissal of other people's systems as a source of information when forming an opinion about a component, e.g. the Sharks' visit to Magico to hear the M3 would have been futile - which I can't believe it was.


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Mike said:
You're making changes to your system. You're evaluating new speakers. You're contemplating a switch to tube amps or solid state. You're thinking a new DAC will get you closer. Cables...oh yeah...those too.

When you're considering a change, what are you using as your point of reference? A friends system? A dealers system? An amalgamation of all the live concerts you've heard? Can you even remember?

For me, I played sax for over 30 years. I played in 20+ piece Big Bands and I played in small jazz ensembles. I know what a terrific percussion section sounds like. I know what 5 trumpets and trombones blowing behind your head sounds like.

What about you? What's your reference?
Click to expand...


Throw out some jazz horn recordings you consider well done ....??
 
bonzo said:
Exactly this. The problem is many audiophiles have their reference set to their own system (due to listening to it regularly). So, every change to that system becomes an improvement, when it is not really significant. Ideally, one should be going to a lot of live concerts, not have a speaker (hey I don't have one right now :)), and then fly around to check whose system sounds closest to the live. Well, that's how I ended up, so that is my reference to set a reference system
Click to expand...


Its a good reference once your ear/brain compromise switch is set for realistic reproduction standards. After years in the recording studio environment listening to hundreds of test copies , i can say most recordings are a shadow of the original work, plenty information lost between pre / post production .

IMO, it's also physically impossible to capture a full symphony Orchestra in a stereo recording , too many compromises.


Regards
 
a.wayne said:
Throw out some jazz horn recordings you consider well done ....??
Click to expand...

Quality of recording or musicality/technical prowess?

One of the best from a sheer saxophone technical standpoint is David Sanborn - Straight to the Heart. Technically, one of the best ever at his best. In studio live recording.


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a.wayne said:
Im looking to add to my library , so good technically and well recorded is a good thing.... :)
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It's technically superb. Recording was live in a studio. Check out his supporting cast on that album. Wow.


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Live music is the standard. I've yet to find anything close, but that is the goal. Short of live music, the toe-tapping effect, along with shivers or hairs standing on end suffice. Even a spontaneous grin is a good sign!
 
That the changed system still produces convincing sound, and it's a gain if it can be done at a louder level. Which means it has to be able to generate the impact and punch that those "5 trumpets and trombones blowing behind your head" do, even if they are further away than what you have typically experienced.
 
Mike said:
....I know what 5 trumpets and trombones blowing behind your head sounds like....
Click to expand...

Yikes! I suppose this would be what is referred to as 'forward' sounding?

My reference (for mostly classical and acoustic jazz) is Orchestra Hall, Chicago. Warm, wide, deep.
 
Live performance, of familiar material, definitely. Purpose built auditoriums and theatres. Several venues in Melbourne and Sydney are world class. Certainly the many amazing Opera Houses of Europe. If I get a semblance of that feeling you get from experiencing performances at such venues, then I am listening to a system that meets my minimum expectation and reference levels.

Count Bassie at Hamer Hall, Melbourne was a fine performance example to draw upon.

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Can your equipment and room do something relative like that?
 

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