What has the most audible impact in a digital HI-Fi set up after speakers, amps and DAC?

applecross said:
There seems to be consensus on power and room treatment.
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Not quite. In my experience, also recently once again, power conditioners almost always reduce dynamic contrast, liveliness and energy of the presentation (reliably the latter two, mostly the first one as well). The only exceptions to this that I have heard are -- maybe -- the massive Tice Powerblock II from around 1990 and a not anymore produced Triangle Art conditioner.

Many people like the "black background", "cleanness", "calm" and "control" that power conditioners provide, but that is only partially due to actual benefits. Mostly it is just an expression of the reduction of dynamics, liveliness and energy. There have been discussions back and forth about this since I became an audiophile in 1990, and little has changed since then.

If you like the power conditioner sound, fine. But do NOT ever buy a power conditioner unheard, you may be disappointed. Fancy power cables are mostly problematic as well; usually best are cheap standard power cords for $ 10 or less. I have heard fancy, expensive power cords actually deteriorate the sound. Seriously, I'm not joking.

I do agree with others about room treatment. Room and speaker set-up, after purchasing all the components you mentioned, are of paramount importance.
 
You don’t get the room right and spkr placement you’ll be chasing your tail and wasting money. Those two things are the foundation all the other items are built on


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Al M. said:
Not quite. In my experience, also recently once again, power conditioners almost always reduce dynamic contrast, liveliness and energy of the presentation (reliably the latter two, mostly the first one as well). The only exceptions to this that I have heard are -- maybe -- the massive Tice Powerblock II from around 1990 and a not anymore produced Triangle Art conditioner.
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Shunyata Research power conditioners/distributors don't either, but I agree that most do. This is because most of them utilize chokes, coils, inductors or Balun transformers to provide noise suppression. The problem is these devices is that they significantly impact dynamic transient current delivery, aka DTCD, which is why they reduce dynamic contrasts.

Al M. said:
Fancy power cables are mostly problematic as well; usually best are cheap standard power cords for $ 10 or less. I have heard fancy, expensive power cords actually deteriorate the sound. Seriously, I'm not joking.
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Sorry, respectfully disagree. The vast majority of cheap standard power cords limit DTCD signficantly, and are also really, really noisy as shown at this link:
https://youtu.be/42hmSXhiblc
 
Swisstrips said:
You don’t get the room right and spkr placement you’ll be chasing your tail and wasting money. Those two things are the foundation all the other items are built on


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I agree but would emphasize that seating position must be optimized first. Then speaker position and room treatment.
 
GSOphile said:
I agree with both of Puma Cat's points and would add that my Niagara 5000 has improved rather than detracted from dynamics.
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Totally agree on Niagara 5000. I have found it essential to my listening enjoyment. Very dynamic. I’m still playing with whether or not the amplifiers should be plugged into it or the wall and have found that the answer changes depending on the amp.
 
I would add speaker set up to room and speakers. In my experience, a proper setup by an expert has made quite a significant change in performance.


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Puma Cat said:
Shunyata Research power conditioners/distributors don't either, but I agree that most do. This is because most of them utilize chokes, coils, inductors or Balun transformers to provide noise suppression. The problem is these devices is that they significantly impact dynamic transient current delivery, aka DTCD, which is why they reduce dynamic contrasts.



Sorry, respectfully disagree. The vast majority of cheap standard power cords limit DTCD signficantly, and are also really, really noisy as shown at this link:
https://youtu.be/42hmSXhiblc
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Well, I didn't want to negatively mention any brand names, but since you brought up Shunyata:

A friend had a Shunyata Denali on loan, and since I really, really wanted to hear it, I traveled quite far to his house and back, in one day. He told me it would not be worth the trip, but I insisted. Unfortunately, he was right, and I was disappointed as well.The Denali clearly suppressed dynamics and took life out of the music. The system with it did have a nice midrange, but that was it. It was no comparison with my friend's Triangle Art conditioner. Well, I learned something that day.

Another friend bought a Denali, but while he liked the cleanness of sound, he found that it made the music anemic. When I visited him shortly after, he jokingly had put up a sign "Denali-free zone". He later sold the unit.

And yes, I stand by my remarks about power cords. On the positive side, I did hear some audiophile cords that were just different without necessarily being worse than stock cords. But were they actually better? Hmmm, hard for me to answer in the affirmative.
 
I know you keep saying this all over the internet for a very long time, Al, regarding power conditioners and power cords. But my experience says otherwise, esp. regarding Shunyata products. I also know there are many, really..quite many, on this forum that would disagree with you. Something is really amiss here.
 
Ok, I'm laughing now ........ the thread (like so many others) has degraded to a freakin' cable debate !

To the Op ........ as you have hopefully seen the 'real' answer here (in so far as top of the list important) is speakers / room / listening position within said room. All the other shit follows .............
 
Well I know my basic power strip (if you call $1000 a basic for a power strip) Niagara 1000 was a nice improvement. The way I figure it, I need to use some type of power strip since there are not enough plugs in the wall for all the components, so why would I not get something better then a Home Depot special. I cannot say it made a night and day difference, but it did improve the openness in the system, and it certainly did not hurt anything.

I also believe, like everything else in audio any more, you can go way over the top :)...
 
Skipping over the obvious program source differences of vinyl, tape and digital.
a] in analog, it would be mis-set stage gains and background noise and interference. All of which are situation specific.
b] in digital it would be components not doing what you think they are doing. some DSP processors have a mind of their own. some units do unexpected sample rate conversions. PC's have been known to reset the audio setting.
 
Randy Myers said:
Well I know my basic power conditioner (if you call $1000 a basic for a power strip) Niagara 1000 was a nice improvement. The way I figure it, I need to use some type of power strip since there are not enough plugs in the wall for all the components, so why would I not get something better then a Home Depot special. I cannot say it made a night and day difference, but it did improve the openness in the system, and it certainly did not hurt anything.

I also believe, like everything else in audio any more, you can go way over the top :)...
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Centralized distribution is the path Nordost recommends especially if the AQ incorporates Star Grounding fed by your best cable it goes on from there...


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kzhtoo said:
I know you keep saying this all over the internet for a very long time, Al, regarding power conditioners and power cords. But my experience says otherwise, esp. regarding Shunyata products.
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Actually, I have been very vocal about power cords. About power conditioners, not so much. And I cannot remember ever having discussed Shunyata products, but if I did, please feel free to correct me. I know there are many Shunyata fans out there, and I did not want to ruffle any feathers. But after Puma Cat specifically replied to my post with Shunyata as a counter example, I decided not to hold back any longer. But hey, it's just my honest opinion and that of a few others.

I also know there are many, really..quite many, on this forum that would disagree with you. Something is really amiss here.
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Which is why I said in an earlier post:
"If you like the power conditioner sound, fine."

Yet I also added in the next sentence:
"But do NOT ever buy a power conditioner unheard, you may be disappointed."

I believe this is sound advice. No matter how glowing a review may be, or recommendations by others on a forum. Yet if after auditioning the power conditioner in your own system you like it, by all means, go for it. It's a free world, and the only thing that matters is that you are happy with your system.
 
Everyone needs to experiment on their own and find what works best for their system and their environment. Power varies greatly from house to house, city to city.


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AJ Soundfield said:
Lol. I see you enjoy science fiction as much as I enjoy comedy. ;)
That was very funny, thanks!
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Yes, it was weird, to say the least. I don't understand what the guy is claiming to demonstrate, and what he is actually doing. I don't hear voices around my power lines, that's for sure ;). It almost seems he's activating an at-the-ready tape of garbled voices by making the plug-in contact.
 
Mike said:
Everyone needs to experiment on their own and find what works best for their system and their environment. Power varies greatly from house to house, city to city.


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That is also true.
 
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