What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

Mordante said:
Has anyone here heard the Auralic Merak monoblock amps? They are class D.
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I haven't tried myself but I have heard of people comparing with Nord’s and they preferred the Hypex based class D of the Nord’s. I believe there is a thread on the Nord’s running on this forum you might want to check out. If you can stretch your budget then I recommend one of the Hypex Nc1200 based amplifiers, notably the Mola Mola Kaluga’s which can pretty much drive any loudspeaker with ease and control. I know people that have given up on their five times more expensive class A amps for the Kaluga’s.
 
alto said:
I haven't tried myself but I have heard of people comparing with Nord’s and they preferred the Hypex based class D of the Nord’s. I believe there is a thread on the Nord’s running on this forum you might want to check out. If you can stretch your budget then I recommend one of the Hypex Nc1200 based amplifiers, notably the Mola Mola Kaluga’s which can pretty much drive any loudspeaker with ease and control. I know people that have given up on their five times more expensive class A amps for the Kaluga’s.
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I'll look into the Nord's thread. The Meraks are second hand about 2-2.5k for a set. The Mola Mola Kaluga are 7k second hand :)
 
alto said:
MM really worth the stretch. Nord’s are about £2k new.
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I'm not sure but I think my speakers could with better amps. I really don't know yet. Right now I use 7m long speaker cables. The idea is to maybe use longer interlink for separate pre/power combo. But I don't know. I love spending money on audio, but maybe I should keep my set as is for a few years.
 
Mordante said:
I'm not sure but I think my speakers could with better amps. I really don't know yet. Right now I use 7m long speaker cables. The idea is to maybe use longer interlink for separate pre/power combo. But I don't know. I love spending money on audio, but maybe I should keep my set as is for a few years.
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The Nords and the Mola Mola’s come as monos so it is possible to use much shorter speaker cable runs.
 
Mordante said:
Has anyone here heard the Auralic Merak monoblock amps? They are class D.
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I have heard the Merak in a different system (but same speakers as mine). In the same system, the Usher audio amps, which is class A/B, sounded better than the Merak. The Merak's do have a Class A input stage with Class D output.
 
Devg said:
I have heard the Merak in a different system (but same speakers as mine). In the same system, the Usher audio amps, which is class A/B, sounded better than the Merak. The Merak's do have a Class A input stage with Class D output.
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Note also that the Meraks use the Hypex UcD technology, not Ncore. Additionally they are transformer coupled, which probably has more to do with the way they sound than anything else.
 
After years and years of class A amps I recently purchased an Aavik U-300 Amp (Class D), really enjoying it, very musical and has a great internal DAC.
 
barrows said:
"Class-D is not new technology"
Relative to class A, A/B solid state and tube it is. Any new technology takes time to mature and develop, and for engineers to learn how to get the best out of it. Class D is tricky and complex, and requires much more skill on the designers part, as they must be competent in both high speed circuit design and RF engineering to get these amplifiers to sound good, most ordinary, old school, analog engineers do not have the skills to design these amps. It is no coincidence that the best designers in class D are younger engineers. Early solid state amplifiers were not accepted by audiophiles either, until designers had enough experience developing them and figuring out how to make them perform well. Now most audiophiles accept that some of the best sounding amplifiers in the world are solid state, but this was not the case early in the history of SS amps.
Now we are at the point where class D has matured and is in the same conversation with all the best amplifiers in the world. But some still cling to the past and allow that to color their perspective.
BTW, I have vast experience hearing many of the best components in the world, and have been an audiophile since the late 70s, and have also worked in this industry for almost 20 years now, so I am not ignorant in the sound of say, PASS LABS, or Constellation, or Soulution, or Vitus, or VTL, or Audio Research Corporation, etc.
I would suggest that those who just lump all class D amplifiers into a category of "not good enough" need to get out and listen more. Like any amplifier, one "bad" experience is not enough to draw a conclusion from, as with any amplifier, matching to the speaker is critical. A poor combination can make any amplifier sound bad (or at least tonally out of balance).
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Better not Google the Mono and Stereo review of Mola amps then, seems the reviewer shares the stated opinions of a few here. The bass great but not involving , soulless etc.

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deangale123 said:
Better not Google the Mono and Stereo review of Mola amps then, seems the reviewer shares the stated opinions of a few here. The bass great but not involving , soulless etc.

Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk
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Hahaha! THat is a terrible review, clearly by a reviewer who should not be paid. ESpecially when they state clearly that they have a complete bias against the topic at hand for the entire first third of the review. for each review like that I can link to two which proclaim the Kaluga as one of the best amplifiers aever at any price. Also I have listened to it, so I already know. LOL if you believe everything that you read rather than the truth.
 
deangale123 said:
Better not Google the Mono and Stereo review of Mola amps then, seems the reviewer shares the stated opinions of a few here. The bass great but not involving , soulless etc.
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This is exactly the type of person that I tested, who raved about the "live music" sound of the Class A amp they were looking at....when in fact their ears were hearing Class D.
I must be missing something, but I don't see a name on that review. I would love to put his face on Youtube, where he easily identifies the Class D vs Class A sound that exists in his mind, when he doesn't know which he's listening to. Would be fun. :)
 
AJ Soundfield said:
This is exactly the type of person that I tested, who raved about the "live music" sound of the Class A amp they were looking at....when in fact their ears were hearing Class D.
I must be missing something, but I don't see a name on that review. I would love to put his face on Youtube, where he easily identifies the Class D vs Class A sound that exists in his mind, when he doesn't know which he's listening to. Would be fun. :)
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Do all amps sound the same AJ or for some mysterious reason do they only sound the same when people can't see what they are listening to?
 
mep said:
Do all amps sound the same AJ
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Nope. Plenty of real differences between amps. A high output impedance high even order distortion SET will sound very different from a typical Class D or A SS amp.

mep said:
or for some mysterious reason do they only sound the same when people can't see what they are listening to?
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That only happens when there are no real audible differences, as I tested. When they can't see the SET vs Class D above, they still hear the exact same real differences as sighted. Anyone with lots of experience doing things both ways can attest to this.
Btw, some of the early Class D stuff did indeed sound terrible, for good reason.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Nope. Plenty of real differences between amps. A high output impedance high even order distortion SET will sound very different from a typical Class D or A SS amp.


That only happens when there are no real audible differences, as I tested. When they can't see the SET vs Class D above, they still hear the exact same real differences as sighted. Anyone with lots of experience doing things both ways can attest to this.
Btw, some of the early Class D stuff did indeed sound terrible, for good reason.
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At what point do the sound of amplifiers converge so that they are indistinguishable from each other sonically? Let's throw out SE amplifiers from this discussion.
 
mep said:
At what point do the sound of amplifiers converge so that they are indistinguishable from each other sonically? Let's throw out SE amplifiers from this discussion.
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When they are equally capable of driving the load without exhibiting audible non-linearities, of which there are a great many metrics. Frequency, distortion spectra, compression, noise, etc, they become increasingly difficult...or impossible, to distinguish via ears.
The "class" matters scant then. Easier said than done, but also easily demonstrable.
Hence my Youtube suggestion. Have the claimant pick whichever non-pathelogical class A (so no SET etc) they believe best highlight the attributes that will allow differentiation vs Class D, I'll supply the Class D and the camera. The whole world gets to see the results of the claimant.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
When they are equally capable of driving the load without exhibiting audible non-linearities, of which there are a great many metrics. Frequency, distortion spectra, compression, noise, etc, they become increasingly difficult...or impossible, to distinguish via ears.
The "class" matters scant then. Easier said than done, but also easily demonstrable.
Hence my Youtube suggestion. Have the claimant pick whichever non-pathelogical class A (so no SET etc) they believe best highlight the attributes that will allow differentiation vs Class D, I'll supply the Class D and the camera. The whole world gets to see the results of the claimant.
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So how much do a pair of Class D amps cost that are indistinguishable from a non-SE Class A amp? I'm sure lots of people would like to know the answer for how much it will cost to equal the sound quality of expensive Class A amps with Class D such that no one can tell them apart.
 
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