We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

[nicoff]

We are currently experiencing a golden age of affordable high-end audio. The main component, music, is now more accessible than ever before. For just $15 per month, which was the cost of a single CD just a few years ago, anyone can have access to millions of tracks, including high-definition recordings that cost $25 per album today. It's no surprise that streaming has become the preferred medium for listening to music.

Today, excellent digital components are available that eliminate the need to worry about jitter or other digital issues. For just a few hundred dollars, anyone can purchase or build a streaming device, and there are also DACs available with much better specifications than DACs that would have cost thousands of dollars just a few years ago.

So far, the total cost is less than $1,000, excluding the music.

For those who prefer headphones, it's possible to invest in a headphone/amp combo and still end up with an amazing sounding high-end audio system for just a few thousand dollars in total.

For those who prefer listening via speakers, a new generation of active speakers (speaker/amp combo) are available for much less money than it would cost to buy separates. These speakers come with amps optimized for that speaker and may even have digital signal processing (DSP) capabilities to improve the acoustics of the room.

 

[Mike]

Audio at the extremes has gotten so much better. I’m kind of shocked at how good digital and solid state are today vs 10 years ago. Even turntables/arms/carts continue to improve. And budget quality audio has gone off the charts. Heck a little integrated and those Polk audio speakers I heard a while back and you’re off to the races.

What the audio world has witnessed (and will witness is in all its glory in about 10 days from now in Munich Germany) is a influx of young, hungry, creative companies. Those resting on their laurels are going to be caught off guard.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Hear Here]

For those who prefer listening via speakers, a new generation of active speakers (speaker/amp combo) are available for much less money than it would cost to buy separates. These speakers come with amps optimized for that speaker and may even have digital signal processing (DSP) capabilities to improve the acoustics of the room.

Yes, though perhaps active speakers will soon reduce in price as currently it is generally high cost brands that have initiated this trend. Maybe in a few years, good sounding active speakers will become available at budget prices.

There are perhaps as many hi-fi buffs, who get huge pleasure in buying costly boxes to display on their equipment racks, as there are those interested solely in the end result - music at highest sound quality. For the latter group, the allure of magnificent-looking turntables doesn't exist, nor the shelves of costly vinyl. They will enjoy the increasingly extensive range of active speakers that will include a streaming ability, fed by increasingly high definition digital files.

Avantgarde's new G3 speakers are already fully active (with passive alternative for the former group perhaps!) and will soon sport a streamer module. What's left? - just the power cable! Bring it on, I say.

I suspect though, most of us will spend just as much dosh on a pair of streaming active speakers as we do on our multiple units, but the end result – the music – will be of far higher fidelity. I’ll be seriously considering the Avantgarde Duo GT when the streamer module becomes available, though its cost will exceed the current list price of all my existing kit.

 

[gadawg]

I remember in the early 90’s Meridian showed us the future with their active speakers. Was quite impressive for the time but they were never a huge hit and I’m not sure that active speakers are likely to be the main path most audiophile’s will choose in the near future either as it takes away the ability to mix and match components to create the exact sound you are looking for. Also takes away flexibility around growing the system over time. I get it that it makes sense and this might be more popular in the future but I think it’s a little ways off from being the main path forward in the high end. I think it will possibly be more popular in the lower price products sooner rather than later as the folks buying lower priced gear often care as much about space savings as they do performance and powered speakers have the potential to deliver on both space savings and value. Just not sure most of us in high end today are ready to give up ultimate flexibility for what powered speakers deliver.

George

 

[Hear Here]

I wonder why, when we buy cars we visit a showroom or two after research and buy a model complete with an engine, gearbox, seats and other important parts, all chosen by BMW or Audi, whereas we think we know better when it comes to audio. Perhaps more of us should put faith in the likes of Avantgarde to build as complete and satisfying a product as Audi does with their cars.

Or perhaps we should cobble together our cars with a body from Audi, an engine from BMW and a gearbox from Cadillac? The days of the coackbuilder in the car industry have long gone and perhaps cars are the better for it. Will audio follow?

 

[nicoff]

I remember in the early 90’s Meridian showed us the future with their active speakers. Was quite impressive for the time but they were never a huge hit and I’m not sure that active speakers are likely to be the main path most audiophile’s will choose in the near future either as it takes away the ability to mix and match components to create the exact sound you are looking for. Also takes away flexibility around growing the system over time. I get it that it makes sense and this might be more popular in the future but I think it’s a little ways off from being the main path forward in the high end. I think it will possibly be more popular in the lower price products sooner rather than later as the folks buying lower priced gear often care as much about space savings as they do performance and powered speakers have the potential to deliver on both space savings and value. Just not sure most of us in high end today are ready to give up ultimate flexibility for what powered speakers deliver.

George

The Meridian's audio system was certainly ahead of its time. However, it's been 30 years since then, and much has changed in the audiophile world.

Back then, "flexibility" was a smart approach to building an audio system, especially given the still-developing digital technology. Top-of-the-line CD players, DACs, and Transports that cost several thousand dollars were quickly replaced the following year by newer, cheaper models.

Today, most people are listening to music via the internet (the world wide web did not exist in 1990) and there is no longer a need for CD players or transports. Jitter has been well understood and dealt with, and DAC technology has matured, with units that cost just a few hundred dollars now performing better than ones that cost thousands not long ago. Similarly, amplifier technology has also improved, with powerful Class D amps now available for a fraction of the cost of traditional Class A/Class A-B amplifiers.

Since speaker manufacturers know their product better than anyone else, they can take advantage of the existing mature technologies (streamers, DACs, and amps) and build that technology into their speakers. As a result, there is no longer a need for "flexibility" as the electronics have already been optimized for the speakers. And let's not forget that these active speakers do not need speaker cables or fancy interconnects either!

I anticipate that other high-end speaker manufacturers will be following the same road as Avantgarde.

 

[chops]

I don't think fully active loudspeakers, no matter who makes them or how expensive they will cost, will ever replace separate components and traditional "passive" loudspeakers.

The traditional high-end setup allows you to tailor the sound of your system to your liking and your room. Combinations of various preamps, amps, DACs, cables, loudspeakers and driver types, all get you to where you want your system to be with some trial and error.

With active loudspeakers, you're stuck with the drivers they use, their amps, their DACs, etc, etc, and the ONLY way to get the sound (if it's even possible) of that type of system to meet your liking and room is via DSP and EQ.

No thanks. The last thing any serious listener/hifi enthusiast wants is more digital processing on top of digital processing.

Active loudspeakers are alright for small secondary systems or background music or part of a small, decent HT system, but not for serious hifi.

And unless they make these active loudspeakers modular to where you can pull out the amps, or DACs, or streamers, or analog input sections, etc, etc yourself, it's going to be a major pain in the butt when and if an amp or DAC or something else fails in the loudspeakers. You'll have to ship off the entire loudspeaker, if not both of them. Have fun with that.

 

[Hear Here]

I don't think fully active loudspeakers, no matter who makes them or how expensive they will cost, will ever replace separate components and traditional "passive" loudspeakers.


No thanks. The last thing any serious listener/hifi enthusiast wants is more digital processing on top of digital processing.

Active loudspeakers are alright for small secondary systems or background music or part of a small, decent HT system, but not for serious hifi.

Your first point, I hope you are wrong and that high quality active speakers become the norm in high end music systems bought by music lovers rather than by box boasters! Those who prefer to tinker around can join the "tube rollers" and continue to enjoy their hobby of equipment swapping.

Second point - agree 100%. Ever more signal processing must surely degrade the precious signal. However one of the beauties of fully active speaker systems is that DSP can be built into the bass amp alone, thus leaving the top and middle unmolested by DSP, while the bass can (if necessary) by DSP'd to overcome room acoustic anomalies. Best of both worlds maybe?

Third point - I suspect some degree of upgradability will become available in top notch active speakers. The new Avantgardes for example have space in their enclosures for the iTron active electronics and/or the passive crossover. If there was any significant future tech that renders the iTron amp anything less than ideal, AG would doubtless offer an iTron Mk II that could easily be swapped for the existing one, in much the same way NAD offers new modules that are user-exchangeable to replace earlier versions or to add connectivity. However, I suspect the need to upgrade may be a decade or two in the future and by then everything including the speaker itself may be such that well-heeled owners will be thinking of moving on – possibly to G4 Avantgardes!

 

[chops]

Your first point, I hope you are wrong and that high quality active speakers become the norm in high end music systems bought by music lovers rather than by box boasters! Those who prefer to tinker around can join the "tube rollers" and continue to enjoy their hobby of equipment swapping.

Second point - agree 100%. Ever more signal processing must surely degrade the precious signal. However one of the beauties of fully active speaker systems is that DSP can be built into the bass amp alone, thus leaving the top and middle unmolested by DSP, while the bass can (if necessary) by DSP'd to overcome room acoustic anomalies. Best of both worlds maybe?

Third point - I suspect some degree of upgradability will become available in top notch active speakers. The new Avantgardes for example have space in their enclosures for the iTron active electronics and/or the passive crossover. If there was any significant future tech that renders the iTron amp anything less than ideal, AG would doubtless offer an iTron Mk II that could easily be swapped for the existing one, in much the same way NAD offers new modules that are user-exchangeable to replace earlier versions or to add connectivity. However, I suspect the need to upgrade may be a decade or two in the future and by then everything including the speaker itself may be such that well-heeled owners will be thinking of moving on – possibly to G4 Avantgardes!

I put active loudspeakers (high quality or not) in the same category as these new "all-in-one" units that are popping up everywhere from companies such as the Naim Uniti Atom, Cambridge Audio Evo 75/150, HiFi Rose RS520, Lyngdorf TDAI-1120, and whatever else is out there. They're designed for people who appreciate good sound but don't want to be bothered with a bunch of equipment and want these all-in-one units to do the thinking for them. The same as someone who appreciates good sounding home theater and is completely satisfied with a decent soundbar system vs someone with an all-out dedicated home theater and all separate gear, speakers, amplifiers, subs, etc, etc.

IOW, these types of systems and active loudspeakers are NOT and will NOT be a replacement for the real deal. And if what you say, loudspeaker companies making active systems only use DSP/EQ to fix the bass, that will be horrible as well since there will be nothing to be done to fix thin or bloated midrange, or bright or roll-off top end. You're just stuck with whatever.

Sure, all of these all-in-one units and active loudspeakers are gaining traction, but they are not a replacement for separate gear and quality passive loudspeakers. They're just for a different kind of clientele.

 

[Hear Here]

> They're designed for people who appreciate good sound but don't want to be bothered with a bunch of equipment and want these all-in-one units to do the thinking for them.

For music lovers (as opposed to equipment buffs), nothing wrong in that.

> And if what you say, loudspeaker companies making active systems only use DSP/EQ to fix the bass, that will be horrible as well since there will be nothing to be done to fix thin or bloated midrange, or bright or roll-off top end. You're just stuck with whatever.

Now that seems to be suggesting that DSP is a good thing! Not what you said earlier. If the midrange is thin or bloated, then that particular product is not for you – there are (or will be) plenty of alternatives, or you need to address the problem in other ways such as room furnishing, carpets, etc. To fix the problems you mention using DSP is surely not ideal. Bass DSP is another matter as some room problem that adversely affect the bass cannot be fixed by other means and DSP applied to the bass does not reduce the excitement factor of the music.

> Sure, all of these all-in-one units and active loudspeakers are gaining traction, but they are not a replacement for separate gear and quality passive loudspeakers.

I think they are. With modern technology and minituration of components, high end integrated amps are now much more accepted and of equally fine quality as a preamp and a pair of monos (within reason). Then why not put a DAC the size of a matchbox into the integrated amp case? We've already ditched several costly cables that never add to sound quality. OK, there's surely room for a streamer module too, so this can go into the same box without loss of quality, if designed for high end sound - another cable ditched. Next logical stage is to ditch the passive XO that is often quoted as the biggest sound degenerating aspect in a good system. This means an electronic XO and 3 amps, but these are now so small and sensibly priced (or can be), the whole lot could be packaged into a compact module that can be built into the speaker enclosure.

You'll still have to home audition these high end active speakers, but I'm sure that the one that suits your room will knock spots off an existing multi-box system cobbled together over a decade or so and all connected together with a snake-pit of cables that do no favours to the sound. Your Signature suggests a significant number of boxes that are designed individually by several companies, probably of widely differing vintage and performance levels. The thought of selling off these carefully chosen gems to be replaced by a single significant purchase may be hugely unattractive, but on the other hand, it may hugely improve what eventually reaches your ears. But of course that takes away a lot of the hobby aspect of audio! Personally, I'd like to reduce my 2-box plus full-range speakers (I despise subs!) to a pair of better-sounding speakers that require nothing more than power and Ethernet cables. My living room would be tidied up and offer more room for its main purpose as a living room without compromise to my love of music. It's music I love, not the pile of boxes that's considered necessary to produce it - but maybe it's just me that's odd!

 

[chops]

> They're designed for people who appreciate good sound but don't want to be bothered with a bunch of equipment and want these all-in-one units to do the thinking for them.

For music lovers (as opposed to equipment buffs), nothing wrong in that.

> And if what you say, loudspeaker companies making active systems only use DSP/EQ to fix the bass, that will be horrible as well since there will be nothing to be done to fix thin or bloated midrange, or bright or roll-off top end. You're just stuck with whatever.

Now that seems to be suggesting that DSP is a good thing! Not what you said earlier. If the midrange is thin or bloated, then that particular product is not for you – there are (or will be) plenty of alternatives, or you need to address the problem in other ways such as room furnishing, carpets, etc. To fix the problems you mention using DSP is surely not ideal. Bass DSP is another matter as some room problem that adversely affect the bass cannot be fixed by other means and DSP applied to the bass does not reduce the excitement factor of the music.

> Sure, all of these all-in-one units and active loudspeakers are gaining traction, but they are not a replacement for separate gear and quality passive loudspeakers.

I think they are. With modern technology and minituration of components, high end integrated amps are now much more accepted and of equally fine quality as a preamp and a pair of monos (within reason). Then why not put a DAC the size of a matchbox into the integrated amp case? We've already ditched several costly cables that never add to sound quality. OK, there's surely room for a streamer module too, so this can go into the same box without loss of quality, if designed for high end sound - another cable ditched. Next logical stage is to ditch the passive XO that is often quoted as the biggest sound degenerating aspect in a good system. This means an electronic XO and 3 amps, but these are now so small and sensibly priced (or can be), the whole lot could be packaged into a compact module that can be built into the speaker enclosure.

You'll still have to home audition these high end active speakers, but I'm sure that the one that suits your room will knock spots off an existing multi-box system cobbled together over a decade or so and all connected together with a snake-pit of cables that do no favours to the sound. Your Signature suggests a significant number of boxes that are designed individually by several companies, probably of widely differing vintage and performance levels. The thought of selling off these carefully chosen gems to be replaced by a single significant purchase may be hugely unattractive, but on the other hand, it may hugely improve what eventually reaches your ears. But of course that takes away a lot of the hobby aspect of audio! Personally, I'd like to reduce my 2-box plus full-range speakers (I despise subs!) to a pair of better-sounding speakers that require nothing more than power and Ethernet cables. My living room would be tidied up and offer more room for its main purpose as a living room without compromise to my love of music. It's music I love, not the pile of boxes that's considered necessary to produce it - but maybe it's just me that's odd!

Nothing at all wrong with music lovers, but they'll never get the most out of the music with an all-in-one or active loudspeaker solution.

I would never suggest DSP as a good thing. Just saying that some things can not be addressed with room treatments. If a speaker sounds muddy, tubby, dull, shrilly, thin, tinny, not much can be solved with speaker placement or room treatments in that case. Best to move on to different speakers.

Modern tech doesn't always mean better. There are plenty of top-notch Class D amps out there right now that still don't compare to a top quality Class A or Class AB amplifier. Throwing in compact DACs and streamers doesn't exactly improve performance either. It's well known that dedicated beefy, solid power supplies for a particular purpose is preferred, even for a simple DAC or preamp or streamer to perform their best. And yes, active/digital crossovers have their advantages, but so do passive crossovers. And if one is allowed to tweak the active crossover on their own, there's zero guarantee that they will ever get the loudspeakers to perform their best.

Also, you said in your last post that "cables never add to sound quality" or "snake-pit of cables that do no favors to the sound", essentially the same thing, but I disagree. Cables DO in fact add to the sound, though those differences can either be for the better or for the worse. Just like picking equipment, it's trail and error.

Please, don't pay too much attention to my system signature as there's going to be a few major changes/improvements happening in the near future. I will admit however, even though I have a hodge-podge of "average quality" audio equipment, people would be highly surprised at how good the system sounds currently. But the near future upgrades are sure to take this system up several notches.

 

[Mr Peabody]

If you are going to use DSP it should be full frequency just as in home theater. That's why there are various room treatments not just bass traps. Your entire spectrum needs to be, addressed.

Argue all you wish the future will tell. There are many very good active speakers from ATC, Dynaudio and Goldman to name a few, this just isn't going to be the norm. Those who think it is will carry more weight when they themselves have those type of speakers. Until then it's more being a troll and clanging pans.

There are good and bad for both options, it's just folks are not embracing the everything in a speaker route. May be different in other countries. I don't know one audiophile who has the active speaker set up.

Say what you will, if you spend as much on your speakers as you would for a luxury automobile then it's NOT just about the music. If it was you'd have a JBL party box, Bluetooth and call it a day.

 

[chops]

Say what you will, if you spend as much on your speakers as you would for a luxury automobile then it's NOT just about the music. If it was you'd have a JBL party box, Bluetooth and call it a day.

My Lexus cost a lot more than a JBL party box (whatever that is) and Bluetooth. Though my Maggies didn't cost me anywhere near that of the Lexus.

 

[W9TR]

I think there are two customer personas in high-end audio.

The music lover uses equipment as a means to an end - the enjoyment of music in their home. This group would embrace Active Speakers with all their potential benefits, especially if modern electronics could make speaker placement more designer-friendly.

The equipment lover certainly loves music, but is also deep into the acquisition, setup. and optimization of the equipment. The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts. So for the equipment oriented high end customers, selecting the right components and then optimizing them becomes a quest unto itself. This customer group would never opt for an Active Speaker setup, knowing they can do better themselves.

 

[Mr Peabody]

But a set of AG's would give the Lexus a run for the money.

And, if you don't know the Party Box it may cost as much as a Lexus, LOL Not hardly

My point, if we spend a good portion for good sound it's just not about the music, we want the music to sound the best we can get it. Both don't have to be mutually exclusive. I love music, collected as long as I can remember and began on a suitcase record player but I prefer what I have now.

I believe it will always be difficult for most to get their head around just streaming to a set of speakers.

My Lexus cost a lot more than a JBL party box (whatever that is) and Bluetooth. Though my Maggies didn't cost me anywhere near that of the Lexus.

 

[W9TR]

We are currently experiencing a golden age of affordable high-end audio. The main component, music, is now more accessible than ever before. For just $15 per month, which was the cost of a single CD just a few years ago, anyone can have access to millions of tracks, including high-definition recordings that cost $25 per album today. It's no surprise that streaming has become the preferred medium for listening to music.

Today, excellent digital components are available that eliminate the need to worry about jitter or other digital issues. For just a few hundred dollars, anyone can purchase or build a streaming device, and there are also DACs available with much better specifications than DACs that would have cost thousands of dollars just a few years ago.

So far, the total cost is less than $1,000, excluding the music.

For those who prefer headphones, it's possible to invest in a headphone/amp combo and still end up with an amazing sounding high-end audio system for just a few thousand dollars in total.

For those who prefer listening via speakers, a new generation of active speakers (speaker/amp combo) are available for much less money than it would cost to buy separates. These speakers come with amps optimized for that speaker and may even have digital signal processing (DSP) capabilities to improve the acoustics of the room.

These are the good old days. Right now. For me, there's no question. Awesome sounding music is dirt cheap. Digital has gotten so good its better than 90% of my vinyl. At 1/4 the cost. No need to invest in a TT setup or some fiddly and expensive reel to reel. Of course if either is your passion there are awesome products to fuel your desire. Prerecorded tapes have never been better. No bad news here.

The headphone world is innovating like crazy with new companies like ZMF producing incredible boutique products that perform at the very highest levels. My ZMF Atrium Redheart phones are running rings around my Focal and Audeze cans. Truly special.

The classic two channel folks have an incredible range of choice in components that are well engineered and sound fantastic.

The midrange and basic components have never been better, moving the point of diminishing returns to unheard of levels.

It's great to be here.

 

[TomS]

A system that definitely exemplifies Nicoff's original premise of a new generation of actives is the Dutch & Dutch 8c @$15k. Speakers, amps, DAC, and streaming are all there. Plug in an ethernet cable, point Roon, Qobuz, or Tidal to them, and you're good to go. They'll even adapt to the room. Go ahead and place them close to the front wall if you like. You won't spend much time thinking about their DSP magic, as they sound amazing right out of the box, especially for that kind of money. They would be very satisfying, even for a "serious audiophile" like me.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Another poster proving my point. I'm sure those speakers are nice but what is in the signature. No one is disputing those all-in-a-speaker produtcts exist, but, whose using them?

I suppose time will tell if these companies sell enough units to make the product continue to be viable.

A system that definitely exemplifies Nicoff's original premise of a new generation of actives is the Dutch & Dutch 8c @$15k. Speakers, amps, DAC, and streaming are all there. Plug in an ethernet cable, point Roon, Qobuz, or Tidal to them, and you're good to go. They'll even adapt to the room. Go ahead and place them close to the front wall if you like. You won't spend much time thinking about their DSP magic, as they sound amazing right out of the box, especially for that kind of money. They would be very satisfying, even for a "serious audiophile" like me.

 

[Hear Here]

My Lexus cost a lot more than a JBL party box (whatever that is) and Bluetooth. Though my Maggies didn't cost me anywhere near that of the Lexus.

Ah, but was your Lexus bought as an "all-in-one" or did you buy a Lexus body with a BMW engine and an Audi interior?

I can't see any reason why a good all-in-one shouldn't be as satisfactory (and in fact probably better) than the cobbled together mix-and-match alternative - car or audio!

 

[nicoff]

If you are going to use DSP it should be full frequency just as in home theater. That's why there are various room treatments not just bass traps. Your entire spectrum needs to be, addressed.

Argue all you wish the future will tell. There are many very good active speakers from ATC, Dynaudio and Goldman to name a few, this just isn't going to be the norm. Those who think it is will carry more weight when they themselves have those type of speakers. Until then it's more being a troll and clanging pans.

There are good and bad for both options, it's just folks are not embracing the everything in a speaker route. May be different in other countries. I don't know one audiophile who has the active speaker set up.

Say what you will, if you spend as much on your speakers as you would for a luxury automobile then it's NOT just about the music. If it was you'd have a JBL party box, Bluetooth and call it a day.

You know nothing, Jon Snow! (Ygritte)

It is meant as a joke! [unless you had to look it up]