Vinyl Cleaning - The Dirty Truth Letter from Mat Weisfeld, VPI Industries

I can concur on what Uncle mike is saying, some if not most LP groove noise is from mistracking, the better the setup, The less Likely the issue ...


A once noisy record may become silent ......
 
Let's lighten the mood. This is what I use to drain my VPI - yeah, seriously! Though, Not quit the same taste. If you are going to drain it, do it in style! lol
 
a.wayne said:
I can concur on what Uncle mike is saying, some if not most LP groove noise is from mistracking, the better the setup, The less Likely the issue ...


A once noisy record may become silent ......
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Actually how much noise is perceived also depends on besides the record condition, the cartridge, cartridge design, arm design and electronics. Cartridges with very exotic contact area-say for instance the Atlas in my experience-seem to make records quieter. Whether that's due to the stylus reaching unplayed areas is open to debate. Another factor that affects the cartridge's "noise floor" is how vibrations are transmitted up the cantilever to the fulcrum. Those who have compared a strain gauge (and it's quietness) vs. a MC cartridge are in part hearing this noise transmission difference. Peter Ledermann can obviously describe this effect far better. Then, tube electronics are in general much kinder to surface noise than is SS gear. Finally, linear tracking arms are able to play LPs that have no right to sound that good looking at the surface condition.
 
Golucid said:
Let's lighten the mood. This is what I use to drain my VPI - yeah, seriously! Though, Not quit the same taste. If you are going to drain it, do it in style! lol
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i'm normally a single malt guy, but lately it's been this as my 'hair-of-dog' choice....

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Mike Lavigne said:
your perspective on noise and vinyl is all about your reference.

I recall my perspective on how noisy records inherently were, let's call it my reality, in 2002.

then I purchased the Rockport Sirius III Turntable.

I recall vividly my reaction when I played my first record on that turntable. my jaw dropped. and I realized that vinyl as a format is not noisy, but the imperfect execution of the format adds noise.

don't blame the format for the noise. or assume that an RCM is going to lower the noise floor of your turntable.

at some point in the future you may hear a record you know well have much less noise than you think it has and your reference for what is causing what will change and a light will go on.

cleaning records will only move the needle a little. the big step is elsewhere. and it is many things.

come over to my room and I can play you hours and hours of records with zero noise....other than the lead in groove.

i'm not saying that groove noise does not exist; but it's not a given.
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Mike.......You made some good points but let me make clear my point. I never said vinyl is a noisy format, nor did I touch on how the totality of turntable parts and pieces impact the sound. I said there is no such thing as a noiseless record. I am well aware of the multiple intricacies associated with vinyl playback that adds to or subtracts from the noise floor. My point is the noise floor of even the best rigs is not silence once the stylus is dropped. Quiet playback is not the same thing as silence. Noiseless implies silence.

I have been enjoying vinyl for well over 45 years and have had exposure to many wonderful and not so wonderful turntables, tonearms, phono cartridges, and phono stage preamps through these many years. I agree that there are a plethora of variables in play every time a stylus enters the groove, not to mention the accuracy of the cartridge and tonearm setup and which protractor poison you choose to use. None are perfect. The cumulative results of those many variables are what separates premium level vinyl playback from something less. I am certainly no expert and don't claim to be but I do have a fair amount of experience and knowledge on the subject at hand. One thing is certain, it's a deep rabbit hole for sure.

Congratulations on owning an 8000 record collection. That is amazing and serious. I don't have enough room to correctly store that much vinyl. How do you make a decision on what gets played on any given night?
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Actually how much noise is perceived also depends on besides the record condition, the cartridge, cartridge design, arm design and electronics. Cartridges with very exotic contact area-say for instance the Atlas in my experience-seem to make records quieter. Whether that's due to the stylus reaching unplayed areas is open to debate. Another factor that affects the cartridge's "noise floor" is how vibrations are transmitted up the cantilever to the fulcrum. Those who have compared a strain gauge (and it's quietness) vs. a MC cartridge are in part hearing this noise transmission difference. Peter Ledermann can obviously describe this effect far better. Then, tube electronics are in general much kinder to surface noise than is SS gear. Finally, linear tracking arms are able to play LPs that have no right to sound that good looking at the surface condition.
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The Clearaudio GFS is very sensitive in these regards. Even with current reissues, there are some labels that are dead quiet without any perceivable groove noise and others that drone with it. Much inconsistency across labels and lathe cutting tips and angles has a lot to do with it too. Rake angle makes a difference... I've elected to set according to the best medium which are Chad's Analogue Production pressings. That is my benchmark. Not many will argue that they are currently the best pressings in the world.
 
Harry from VPI says the US cleaner to clean and his vacuum to dry, as the non vacuum method does not work for him.

How does Harry dry the LP considering it is wet on both sides when it comes out of the US unit?? His VPI vacuum does not vacuum both sides.
 
XV-1 said:
Harry from VPI says the US cleaner to clean and his vacuum to dry, as the non vacuum method does not work for him.

How does Harry dry the LP considering it is wet on both sides when it comes out of the US unit?? His VPI vacuum does not vacuum both sides.
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I think like the inexpensive US unit that is on Agon and shows. Air dry like dishes on a rack.
 
Steve said:
I've elected to set according to the best medium which are Chad's Analogue Production pressings. That is my benchmark. Not many will argue that they are currently the best pressings in the world.
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Wait, wait , wait for it ..........ahhhhhhbout now !!!!


:)




At 50.00 a pop....... Ohhhh yeah
 
a.wayne said:
Wait, wait , wait for it ..........ahhhhhhbout now !!!!


:)




At 50.00 a pop....... Ohhhh yeah
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50 dollars is for a double 45 rpm album.

Have you looked at the album jackets? No expense is spared there either. The cardboard must be double the thickness of an ordinary record and everything is in 4/C. Have you every investigated what it costs to print 4/C on a good eg museum quality not schlock press? (if you ever noticed in the old days, the first thing a label did to cut costs was go from a color back to a B/W back jacket!) The best quality inner sleeves? Then factor in up front material costs, royalty fees, lawyer fees, labor costs, interest and credit lines and limited 2000 runs --oh and letting him actually make some money-- and the albums are really a bargain.

Oh and stop living in the past. Go and pull up a cpi calculator and plug in 1980 and put in $12 for an LP. That $12 album would cost in current money $34.18. So it is truly a bargain especially if you take into account the reject rate, especially when compared to the schlock of the late '70s, is virtually nil.

That said, Pallas and MOFI also do an excellent job of pressing records also. RTI is step below but not terrible. Just inconsistent.

Mikey also mentioned to me that a new record pressing plant in opening in NJ and that won't be just for club vinyl.
 
XV-1 said:
Harry from VPI says the US cleaner to clean and his vacuum to dry, as the non vacuum method does not work for him.

How does Harry dry the LP considering it is wet on both sides when it comes out of the US unit?? His VPI vacuum does not vacuum both sides.
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Good point. Coming from my view as a vacuum believer myself: I can see using the US cleaner that dries (I forget if it's the AD or the other one), but then there would be no need for vacuuming. If he is drying the records via dish rack and household air, again...no use for vacuum and it would be the worst thing for the records too. NEVER vacuum a dry record! Also if dish rack air drying all the dirt floating around in the air settle back onto the records and a lot of the dirt or contaminates are sticky. So, if you vacuum that record you are also not only adding static charge, but drying the dirt it picked up from the air in the house to the record and putting more scratches on it at least.
If you live in a cleanroom, no worries, but show of hands: How many folks here live in a cleanroom? That's what I thought.
 
Myles, you need to cut back on the caffeine Buddy , when i get into NY we can wrestle over it , yeah , yeah , I know , the last time I yanked out all your hair, so obviously i cant use that move anymore ...




Jeeeez, @50.00 bucks i would expect excellence, nothing about over pricing, relax Maestro... :rofl:
 
a.wayne said:
Myles, you need to cut back on the caffeine Buddy , when i get into NY we can wrestle over it , yeah , yeah , I know , the last time I yanked out all your hair, so i cant use that move anymore ...




Jeeeez, @50.00 bucks i would expect excellence, relax ... :rofl:
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You've been taking pot shots at records throughout this thread so why are you playing innocent?

All I did is lay out the facts. Are you disputing them?
 
Me, taking potshots at analog !

:rolleyes:


Please , Point out the pot shots , conviction without evidence is , well ......... especially since I have bought those 50.00 LP's...


Myles B. Astor said:
You've been taking pot shots at records throughout this thread so why are you playing innocent?

All I did is lay out the facts. Are you disputing them?
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Wayne... Show me a label at any price with a better quality product?

I have no problem buying MoFI with confidence too. They do a great job with their label "categories" also.
 
Steve,

Did i say there was a problem with the price, I pointed out the quality doesn't come cheap, i bought at 50.00 a pop, at 50.00 a pop, one expects to see quality.

lots of tension guys ... :)

Myles , found anything yet ....?
 
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