Variable Roon Sound Quality

R

Ricky64

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Joined
Apr 10, 2021
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Hi All;

I'm currently running Roon on a nuc with Rock. I use it for multiple systems/speakers (including Sonos) around the house. I have a synology NAS, and stream Qobuz and Tidal.In my main system, I use ethernet into a Mola Mola Tambaqui as the end point.
I've recently introduced some new components into my system, and have been spending more time critically listening. I have been tearing my hair out as sometimes it sounds fantastic, but other times it sounds very bright, with a huge attenuation of bass, sharply dropping off under 110 Hz. Since that time, I've been moving speakers, swapping cables, trying a pre amp in the system, etc.

Last evening, the system was sounding very thin, and devoid of bass. I finally decided to reboot the nuc, and suddenly had full range sound again...

Thus, my system issue is the source. Now, I am questioning the logical steps to remedy. I really would like to stay with Roon, but I am not willing to put up with these variations in sound quality.

Thoughts on next best steps?

Thanks!

System Mola Mola Tambaqui-->Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp-->Focal Utopia Be L&R Monitors.
 
Some of the options you may consider: LPS, fanless chassis, Ethernet isolation such as fiber conversion or other means like GigaFOIL, etc. Ask Mike.
 
Ricky64 said:
Hi All;

I'm currently running Roon on a nuc with Rock. I use it for multiple systems/speakers (including Sonos) around the house. I have a synology NAS, and stream Qobuz and Tidal.In my main system, I use ethernet into a Mola Mola Tambaqui as the end point.
I've recently introduced some new components into my system, and have been spending more time critically listening. I have been tearing my hair out as sometimes it sounds fantastic, but other times it sounds very bright, with a huge attenuation of bass, sharply dropping off under 110 Hz. Since that time, I've been moving speakers, swapping cables, trying a pre amp in the system, etc.

Last evening, the system was sounding very thin, and devoid of bass. I finally decided to reboot the nuc, and suddenly had full range sound again...

Thus, my system issue is the source. Now, I am questioning the logical steps to remedy. I really would like to stay with Roon, but I am not willing to put up with these variations in sound quality.

Thoughts on next best steps?

Thanks!

System Mola Mola Tambaqui-->Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp-->Focal Utopia Be L&R Monitors.
Click to expand...

I doubt it's Roon causing this as I am running Roon on a Mac Mini with an optical set-up and its sound very close in quality to a dedicated $10K high-end audio NAS.

One idea would be to keep track of your sources, e.g. Tidal, Qobuz, or ripped files and see if there is a correlation with the source of the content.

Also, if you're connecting to your Tambaqui directly from a router or Ethernet switch that is powered using a switch-mode power supply, you want to get rid of that straightaway, and replace it with a linear power supply. As Peter from Lumin has mentioned, installng a run of optical fiber between your NAS and the Tambaqui could help as well.

If you could describe for us your entire network chain from the NAS to the Tambaqui including cables and power supplies, that would help us provide you with some suggestion to try.
 
My network is spread throughout the house, NAS in basement, standard switches, etc. I still think there may also be a roon issue..perhaps the multiple zones? I'm not using DSP. Not very tech savvie myself. Wondering if I should just convert to one of the Innuous/small green computer/Sonore/Auralic/Sotm thingamagiggies that simplify and make more direct connections. But which one?
Also pondered whether running a dedicated roon core for the main system, and a second for the other household applications would make sense.
 
Been running roon thru the nucleus for a couple years and have had problems with the roon/ ipad control but nothing that affects sound quality, either all or nothing for me and more likely internet or router problems.
 
I would suggest trying a Small Green Computer. I'm using I9 with UltraRendu and my Synology. Roon/Qobuz combination works flawlessly. The ability to upsample was far better than I expected. I previously used a dedicated laptop wiped of everything that could be removed but the SGC is far superior.

Andrew at SGC is great to work with. I am not tech savvy and he has logged in to set things I was unable to figure out.

If I remember correctly they have a 90 day trial on their products.
 
i reboot my transport running ROCK every so often but do not notice any SQ bump after doing so. an important difference is that i only run two endpoints: direct to dac via usb and to my office computer via LAN.

it would make sense to repeat the experiment / procedure to see if you observe the same difference in SQ.

not sure this helps but my solution to running roon ROCK is described here and here. there are similar non-DIY solutions available such as SGC which is highly regarded as well as the others you mention.
 
aKnyght said:
i reboot my transport running ROCK every so often but do not notice any SQ bump after doing so. an important difference is that i only run two endpoints: direct to dac via usb and to my office computer via LAN.

it would make sense to repeat the experiment / procedure to see if you observe the same difference in SQ.

not sure this helps but my solution to running roon ROCK is described here and here. there are similar non-DIY solutions available such as SGC which is highly regarded as well as the others you mention.
Click to expand...

Really nice write-up, aKnyght! We should make this a sticky for folks that want to do a similar set-up.

Well done, mate.
 
Ricky64 said:
My network is spread throughout the house, NAS in basement, standard switches, etc. I still think there may also be a roon issue..perhaps the multiple zones? I'm not using DSP. Not very tech savvie myself. Wondering if I should just convert to one of the Innuous/small green computer/Sonore/Auralic/Sotm thingamagiggies that simplify and make more direct connections. But which one?
Also pondered whether running a dedicated roon core for the main system, and a second for the other household applications would make sense.
Click to expand...

Ricky,
if you could post a picture of your set-up (e.g. in Powerpoint), that might help. But given your description here, I can think of 3 fairly simple solutions for you that would result in notable improvements.

Option 1: From one of your switches (in the same network as your NAS and Roon NUC), run an Ethernet cable to A side of an Uptone Audio EtherREGEN. From that, use a good quality Ethernet cable (e.g. a Shunyata Venom, Delta or better) out of B side to your Tambaqui. That will result in a notable improvement in SQ.

Option 2: From one of your network switches, run an Ethernet cable to a Sonore OpticalModule (OM). Then run LC/LC specification optical fiber to another OM in your main audio rack. Then, use a high quality Ethernet cable (e.g. a Shunyata Venom, Delta or better) to your Tambaqui.

Option 3: From one of your network switches, run an Ethernet cable to a Sonore OpticalModule (OM). Then run LC/LC specification optical fiber to an optical transceiver into A side of an EtherREGEN in your main audio rack. Then, use a high quality Ethernet cable (e.g. a Shunyata Venom, Delta or better) out of B side to your Tambaqui.

I can post a picture if you need one. Cheers.
 
Yesterday I finished my Nuc setup:

It is a linux pc, with roon installed. On that same pc I have HQPlayer. They work together, the layout by Roon, the stream itself has nothing to do with Roon, it is done by the protocol HQPlayer uses: NAA

There are just a few streamers capable with the HQPlayer stream

aqua LinQ
exaSound s88 Streaming DAC
T+A SDV 3100 HV
Sonore microRendu/ultraRendu as a NAA
SOtM sMS-200/sMS-200ultra/sMS-1000SQ as a NAA
StackAudio Link II
exaSound PlayPointDM/Sigma Streamer/Gamma Server
totaldac d1-streamer

That being said: yesterday I finished a pc in a fanless chassis, which doesn’t get too hot when converting pcm to dsd 512.

The result is there: HQPlayer on that machine sounds awesome 😎

By the way, I have it for sale for 1000 euro and will only ship within the EU
 
Alkyogre said:
Yesterday I finished my Nuc setup:

It is a linux pc, with roon installed. On that same pc I have HQPlayer. They work together, the layout by Roon, the stream itself has nothing to do with Roon, it is done by the protocol HQPlayer uses: NAA

There are just a few streamers capable with the HQPlayer stream

aqua LinQ
exaSound s88 Streaming DAC
T+A SDV 3100 HV
Sonore microRendu/ultraRendu as a NAA
SOtM sMS-200/sMS-200ultra/sMS-1000SQ as a NAA
StackAudio Link II
exaSound PlayPointDM/Sigma Streamer/Gamma Server
totaldac d1-streamer

That being said: yesterday I finished a pc in a fanless chassis, which doesn’t get too hot when converting pcm to dsd 512.

The result is there: HQPlayer on that machine sounds awesome 😎

By the way, I have it for sale for 1000 euro and will only ship within the EU
Click to expand...

Thanks, Alkyogre. I need to figure out how to get this to work on my system. How do you configure an SMS-200Ultra as a NAA? I think that's been my problem. My attempts at using HQPlayer as an output player for Roon so far have not worked. With SOtM SMS-200 UltraNeo network bridge, and I can configure HQPlayer on my local Eunhasu/local web page, but I just can't get output of music. I think I need to set my SOtM SMS-200 up as an NAA but I don't know how to do that.
 
I like the idea of using Roon as an interface and using HQplayer as the engine. Any standouts in this group of players from an absolute performance standpoint or value aspect? I think Mike sells the Aqua.
 
HQP is certainly not the most intuitive software out there. It could be a simple setting within HQP that is keeping you from getting sound. You should visit Roon's community forums. They have a HQPlayer thread and Jussy the person who created HQPlayer contributes regularly.

According to Jussi, the benefit of using HQP NAA is:

"USB in most cases is not isolated at all and has direct galvanic connection between host and the device.
While ethernet by definition is transformer-isolated at all connecting ends. In addition, using ethernet or other IP capable networking gear also allows using optical interconnects further isolating any noise. It also allows longer cabling, so HQPlayer computer can reside outside of the listening room to easily deal with possible acoustic noises (fans) of powerful computers.

In addition IP networking provides one-to-many and many-to-one connectivity USB lacks. So you can either use same DAC from multiple computers, or multiple DACs (around the house) from the same computer."
 
Puma Cat said:
Thanks, Alkyogre. I need to figure out how to get this to work on my system. How do you configure an SMS-200Ultra as a NAA? I think that's been my problem. My attempts at using HQPlayer as an output player for Roon so far have not worked. With SOtM SMS-200 UltraNeo network bridge, and I can configure HQPlayer on my local Eunhasu/local web page, but I just can't get output of music. I think I need to set my SOtM SMS-200 up as an NAA but I don't know how to do that.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how to set the SOTM as NAA, I use a Sonore instead and I go to sonicorbiter.com to select the NAA instead of Roon.

About HQPlayer getting to work:

As input device I use Alsa
As output your ethernet ipv4

You need to make a choice between PCM and DSD too.
I set the dither to none.

Then when all these settings are done: click on the Play button on the upper left corner and power up the volume button on the upper right corner. And then its working for about 30 minutes, because an additional licence is needed for it.
 
Puma Cat said:
.....

My attempts at using HQPlayer as an output player for Roon so far have not worked. With SOtM SMS-200 UltraNeo network bridge, and I can configure HQPlayer on my local Eunhasu/local web page, but I just can't get output of music. I think I need to set my SOtM SMS-200 up as an NAA but I don't know how to do that.
Click to expand...

If you are willing to spend $100 and a little bit of your time, you can build a Roon/HQPlayer endpoint with built-in HQP NAA.
You need a RaspberryPi with a HAT like the HifiBerry Digi+ Pro (total cost about $100 including case and card) and free software (like RoPieee XL).

Step by step instructions for building such device are shown here:
https://codexwilkes.com/downloads/ropieee-guide-for-beginners.pdf

Then you configure the settings in HQP so that on your Output Device Settings the "Backend" is the NAA and the "Device" is the RoPieee XL/Digi-Pro.

You can connect the RPi/HAT to your favorite DAC. And by changing the settings within HQP, you can compare which sound you prefer (NAA vs. other).
 
Ricky64 said:
Hi All;

I'm currently running Roon on a nuc with Rock. I use it for multiple systems/speakers (including Sonos) around the house. I have a synology NAS, and stream Qobuz and Tidal.In my main system, I use ethernet into a Mola Mola Tambaqui as the end point.
I've recently introduced some new components into my system, and have been spending more time critically listening. I have been tearing my hair out as sometimes it sounds fantastic, but other times it sounds very bright, with a huge attenuation of bass, sharply dropping off under 110 Hz. Since that time, I've been moving speakers, swapping cables, trying a pre amp in the system, etc.

Last evening, the system was sounding very thin, and devoid of bass. I finally decided to reboot the nuc, and suddenly had full range sound again...

Thus, my system issue is the source. Now, I am questioning the logical steps to remedy. I really would like to stay with Roon, but I am not willing to put up with these variations in sound quality.

Thoughts on next best steps?

Thanks!

System Mola Mola Tambaqui-->Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp-->Focal Utopia Be L&R Monitors.
Click to expand...
I

Your speaker choice and lack of a preamp are 2 targets. If it were me I'd likely go with an EtherRegen, add a good preamp and ensure your speakers aren't toed in and aimed at your head.
 
The problem is not the software (Roon); the problem is the hardware (nucleus). The nucleus is not a very powerful machine. It is Roon’s solution for folks who wanted a plug and play device

Yet, it costs almost as much as a full fledge windows PC that has much more processing capabilities.

If folks are having performance issues just running Roon in such devices, don’t even think of running HQP on the same machine and expect a better performance.
 
@sb6, I agree with you to a point. I will be upgrading the speakers over the next few months. The Mola Mola has output impedence of 44ohms and 6Vrms. The main issue was that I was noticing significant variations in sound quality, along with a dramatic change on one occasion by rebooting my Intel Nuc running ROCK (thus it isn't a preamp or speaker issue specifically). Since then, I've been looking for a different solution to achieve better consistency. Actually, the sound has been consistently good recently. Still, I am hoping to find a more stable solution without abandoning Roon as an interface.

I like the idea of the HQPlayer and Roon, providing I don't have to do too much tinkering. Is using an Innuos as a Core, along with Squeezlite, accomplish the same NAA task, in a more polished product than some of the above suggestions? Mike recommends just moving to Aurender. I may wind up doing this.
 
Ricky64 said:
…
I like the idea of the HQPlayer and Roon, providing I don't have to do too much tinkering. Is using an Innuos as a Core, along with Squeezlite, accomplish the same NAA task, in a more polished product than some of the above suggestions? Mike recommends just moving to Aurender. I may wind up doing this.
Click to expand...

Accomplishing the same task and sounding the same are two different things. If you have the right computer setup, you can try both and decide for yourself what sounds best to you.

From my experience, HQP requires some tinkering so if you are looking for a plug and play solution, then the Aurender option would work better for you. That said, AFAIK, the Aurender will not do what HQP can do: it cannot upsample to 512DSD or apply sophisticated FIR filters or apply room correction to your digital signal.
 
Ricky64 said:
@sb6, I agree with you to a point. I will be upgrading the speakers over the next few months. The Mola Mola has output impedence of 44ohms and 6Vrms. The main issue was that I was noticing significant variations in sound quality, along with a dramatic change on one occasion by rebooting my Intel Nuc running ROCK (thus it isn't a preamp or speaker issue specifically). Since then, I've been looking for a different solution to achieve better consistency. Actually, the sound has been consistently good recently. Still, I am hoping to find a more stable solution without abandoning Roon as an interface.

I like the idea of the HQPlayer and Roon, providing I don't have to do too much tinkering. Is using an Innuos as a Core, along with Squeezlite, accomplish the same NAA task, in a more polished product than some of the above suggestions? Mike recommends just moving to Aurender. I may wind up doing this.
Click to expand...

Apologies, I should have read about your situation more carefully. The variation in quality may be due to the Intel NUC not operating as it should, could be SW and / or HW.

In terms of HQplayer, yes it takes a bit to get it configured but once accomplished it's usually left alone and is very stable. IME HQplayer alone is the best in sound quality and is noticeably better than ROON stand - alone. ROON front end with HQP NAA is a big jump towards HQP alone. Also, you don't necessarily have to upsample with HQP to get excellent sound. I was one who upsampled and played with filters for years but ultimately came to realize that the best sound to my ears was - no filters and no upsampling. I believe it's system - dependent and ultimately personal preference.
 
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