- Thread Author
- #101
VAC Signature iQ200
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
Trust me, if I visit the west coast you re number one in my list.
I m not asking you to say wich one is the winner over the other but just to have an idea of overall sq.
I m asking this , cause my local dealer just brought AR gear to town, and ref6+ 160m are shown for audition( wich I will soon visit)
Since the 2 amps plays in same league regarding price and all the winner prices went to 160, I was just curious!
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- Thread Author
- #103
They’re both VERY speaker and individual listener dependent. They are completely “chalk and cheese” in my books. Very different. Design philosophies are different as well as the sound signatures. But rest assured, both are at the top of their game.
I will follow up on this interesting thread,
And I will post my impressions on the 160m amps on the concerning thread.
Thks
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Dguitarnut
New member
This is so true. The first tube gear I auditioned in my home setup was AR in which I was extremely dissapointed soundwise. So much so that I went with Solid State again. I had taken AR home instead of the Vac sheerly on it’s looks! Much later was that I tried the Vac and fell in love with its sound.
I heard only once AR, My ears at that time we’re nt educated enough to distinguish any sq type or kind.
But what I read, is the new generation AR is different from the old generation.
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Dguitarnut
New member
I would tend to believe that the tubes they are built around gives them that intrinsic personality. Oddly enough I am really enjoying my 200iq with the KT 150’s which are the ones in the Ar 160M. That’s the beauty of the continuous biasing of the Vacs. Of course you can argue all day that the 160Ms are better voiced with that tube than a do all amp.
Jean Sibelius
New member
Here also a very happy owner of the VAC Signature 200 IQs. I bought these in January of this year after evaluating many other amplifier brands like ModWright, Goldmund, CH-precision, TAD, Nagra, Alieno, ... In the end these VACs were the best match with my Von Schweikert VR10mk2 and the rest of the setup. Already read many very good experiences, but the VACs were the best regardless the pricetag. For the money they are extremely good. Best regards, Jan
Got a pair of 200iQ on loan here, pretty excited for the weekend! I've been using Rogue Audio Apollo and then Apollo Dark on Tannoys for almost 10 contiguous years now. Speakers are Tannoy Canterbury GR. Just did a quick test-run after hookup, but as I've come to expect from almost any VAC vs. Rogue comparison - I can already tell vocal presentation is that much more lifelike & beautiful, and soundstage & depth seem much better too. Now the kicker is I listen to quite a lot of hard rock and classic heavy metal (not the cookie monster vocals stuff), so I'm really curious to see if these amps can at least "thrash" like the Apollos. Some of the VAC gear I've had in here can rock out better than others (the phono stages are particularly amazing at this). The 200iQs will be working with my beloved VAC Renaissance SE phono stage, and an ARC Reference 6 preamp. Stock tubes in the 200iQ's but I have gobs of Tung-Sol KT120 in the Apollos if I want to try that out (no KT150, unfortunately).
rrwmd
Member
I listen to plenty of classic rock with my Signature 200iQ and it sounds great. (Currently awaiting my second amp to pair for mono duty.)
Honestly, this amp is fantastic and does great with all types of music. I'll be interested in hearing your impressions.
Honestly, this amp is fantastic and does great with all types of music. I'll be interested in hearing your impressions.
rrwmd
Member
I might add...I tried KT150s in mine and didn't like it as well, thought it lost a little of the magic.
Dguitarnut
New member
If I had to downsize it would be the hardest piece to give up.
In my system Kt150s are like attaching testicles to it. :derf:
In my system Kt150s are like attaching testicles to it. :derf:
Robd2
New member
Post removed, will start separate thread.
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Dth31
New member
I listen to plenty of rock on mine too. In fact, Neil Young is “Down by the river” right now 
In addition to your overall impression, I’d be grateful to hear what you think about the KT120’s in the 200iQ.
In addition to your overall impression, I’d be grateful to hear what you think about the KT120’s in the 200iQ.
Everything you guys have been saying about these amps is right!
The 200iQ monos were extremely impressive last night. They do sound better than Apollo Darks, in virtually every aspect. They actually sound more powerful - they’re not by Wattage, but they sound more composed, smooth, lifelike, and ballsy when needed. Definitely a dose of the VAC magic midrange, and a very natural touch of warmth. YES they can rock, better than the Apollo’s in fact! The Apollo Darks overall sound a little "flat" and dull compared to the VACs. This with stock KT88. Had a bit of a dumbass moment where I had the wrong setting on the phono stage earlier in the evening, so my KT120 impressions are invalid but I’ll try again. Once I set things right, the KT88 were really faultless, I was wanting for nothing but more and more listening time. Same comparison issue with one amp vs 2, but now that I’ve enjoyed 2 for a night I doubt I’ll be able to downgrade to 1.
I wouldn’t say they’re quite night and day better than the Apollos, which do a fine job - but they certainly are a very significant, very apparent improvement. I think amp is probably the weak point in my system now (sorry Rogue - I’ve been with them for ages and finally outgrew their line) and the VACs will more than rectify that.
Also let me note I tube rolled the hell out of the Apollo Dark’s small tubes, and achieved a very notable boost in performance over the tubes it shipped with (and it actually shipped with Telefunken smooth plate 12ax7 and RCA Clear tip 12au7, not junk by any standard). So a stock Apollo Dark is even further behind these VACs. Man, replacing 3 quads of KT120 in the Rogue was a big pain (did it 3 or 4 times over 9 years), and the exotic small tubes I settled on were expensive and extremely hard to find. So nice how the VAC sounds like it does with stock Russian tubes, and only 2 quads of KT88! My only regret will be that I think the Apollos look cool as hell, just a nice aesthetic fit for my setup. The VACs are a bit more awkward here IMO but it’s sound that rules here.
In short I absolutely want a pair! Man the price is gonna kill me though :lol:
Time to sell a bunch of gear!!!
The 200iQ monos were extremely impressive last night. They do sound better than Apollo Darks, in virtually every aspect. They actually sound more powerful - they’re not by Wattage, but they sound more composed, smooth, lifelike, and ballsy when needed. Definitely a dose of the VAC magic midrange, and a very natural touch of warmth. YES they can rock, better than the Apollo’s in fact! The Apollo Darks overall sound a little "flat" and dull compared to the VACs. This with stock KT88. Had a bit of a dumbass moment where I had the wrong setting on the phono stage earlier in the evening, so my KT120 impressions are invalid but I’ll try again. Once I set things right, the KT88 were really faultless, I was wanting for nothing but more and more listening time. Same comparison issue with one amp vs 2, but now that I’ve enjoyed 2 for a night I doubt I’ll be able to downgrade to 1.
I wouldn’t say they’re quite night and day better than the Apollos, which do a fine job - but they certainly are a very significant, very apparent improvement. I think amp is probably the weak point in my system now (sorry Rogue - I’ve been with them for ages and finally outgrew their line) and the VACs will more than rectify that.
Also let me note I tube rolled the hell out of the Apollo Dark’s small tubes, and achieved a very notable boost in performance over the tubes it shipped with (and it actually shipped with Telefunken smooth plate 12ax7 and RCA Clear tip 12au7, not junk by any standard). So a stock Apollo Dark is even further behind these VACs. Man, replacing 3 quads of KT120 in the Rogue was a big pain (did it 3 or 4 times over 9 years), and the exotic small tubes I settled on were expensive and extremely hard to find. So nice how the VAC sounds like it does with stock Russian tubes, and only 2 quads of KT88! My only regret will be that I think the Apollos look cool as hell, just a nice aesthetic fit for my setup. The VACs are a bit more awkward here IMO but it’s sound that rules here.
In short I absolutely want a pair! Man the price is gonna kill me though :lol:
Time to sell a bunch of gear!!!
I think they'll look better in black! Yes that's hockey pucks instead of a proper amp stand. The ones for the Apollos won't fit here. I'm gonna be poor for a while so this may have to do - and nobody's getting a Christmas present from me either lol. I'm getting excited about these amps, guys.
Robd2
New member
Very cool @mulveling. Any specific thoughts on the base response of the 200IQs?
It's awesome. Wonderful power and slam; more than the Rogue monos. I wasn't entirely expecting that, given the Rogues should be pushing close to 300 Watts/ch (and the Rogue amps are generally reputed for their power, slam, and dynamics), but it's very welcome as there had been this nagging suspicion in the back of my mind I was missing something more there that the Canterburys could give. The intuition was right. The 200iQ monos simply have a beautiful touch of warmth from the midrange down into the bass, and the exact right tiny amount of "bloom" to make notes and instruments feel more fleshy and alive. Treble, as typical from the best VAC gear, has the exact right amount of sparkle while being clean, beautiful, and never harsh, glarey or irritating. These really just nail the right balance and mix of everything. I wanted an amp incarnation of the sound from my Renaissance SE phono stage, and these 200iQ's are IT. Kevin is just a master of voicing tube electronics, and he seems to be getting better at it with time. I feel like I should have explored this route sooner.
The Rogue voicing is definitely more dry/analytical, and I selected its NOS tubes (Mazda 12ax7 silver plates, 1950s Sylvania black plate 12bh7) to maximize the dynamics and bass response rather than trying to "beautify" the mids (e.g. Mullards). Even with that it STILL can't compete with the 200iQ monos on dynamics. And I guarantee you that if I threw in all the tubes to make the midrange pretty, it STILL could never match the VAC on that front
Maybe next year I'll give VAC preamps another try, and look at maybe having an all-VAC system
Part of my problem there is that I'm obsessed with digital remote volume control on my REF 6, and that will be HARD to give up. Also, for whatever reason, I usually find something sonically that doesn't 100% jive with me on their Renaissance preamps (III and V) - unlike their phono stages and now these 200iQ amps. Weird. That may away when the VAC preamp is sandwiched between two sibling VAC components!
I'm like 99% set on ordering a pair now, but I have another night of two of auditioning to work out that last 1%
Dth31
New member
Glad to hear you like them! Your description of the sound matches my perception, too. I keep thinking I should try KT120’s or 150’s, but then I turn on the system to listen to some music, and it just sounds so “right”. Makes me forget about upgrading this or rolling that—I just want to enjoy the music! For me, that’s what this hobby is about. I have no doubt there are “better” amps. The 450iQ’s probably do some things better if I know Kevin! But would they allow me to enjoy the music more than I do now? Doubtful, because I’m enjoying the h*ll out of my system now.
The one thing I would say: if you can find a way to get the Master preamp, try to audition it. While the VAC REN preamps are VERY good, the Master is in another league. I was flabbergasted at how much more musical information it conveyed relative to my previous VAC preamp. I believe it’s the single best piece of equipment I own.
The one thing I would say: if you can find a way to get the Master preamp, try to audition it. While the VAC REN preamps are VERY good, the Master is in another league. I was flabbergasted at how much more musical information it conveyed relative to my previous VAC preamp. I believe it’s the single best piece of equipment I own.
- Thread Author
- #120
I think they'll look better in black! Yes that's hockey pucks instead of a proper amp stand. The ones for the Apollos won't fit here. I'm gonna be poor for a while so this may have to do - and nobody's getting a Christmas present from me either lol. I'm getting excited about these amps, guys.
WOW. Beautiful system.