Upsample or Native playback

Bthomas,
I was not questioning the quality of the Lumin or the rationale for getting one. Joe and Mike love theirs, so there must be something to it. Mike speaks about the SQ benefit from the tight integration of Dac+ streamer. My Boston Pal went full Spatial Computing (Controlled directivity/Active X-over/Open Baffle bass/TriAmped w Job225) with a Prism Titan and says it is the end of the road for him! While another has a Big7 and MSB Platinum Stack running with a maxxed out CAPS server, with Windows 2012 Server and Audiophile Optimser runnibg in Core Mode using JRiver and tells me that he is in Nirvana. Many ways to skin a cat. All roads lead to Rome eventually.

I am dealing with the subject matter of the thread here, which is an intellectual matter. In order to clarify intent, I am asking if the OP wants to find out of the Lumin benefits from upsampling all to high rate DSD or if any computer upsampling to high rate DSD is better than native. two different questions!
 
wisnon said:
Can HQ Player do the same?
Click to expand...

For "PCM to DSD upsampling and be used as a compatible control point for LUMIN via UPnP protocol with gapless playback support", I doubt HQPlayer does that, based on the google search results of "HQPlayer UPnP".
 
wisnon said:
Bthomas,
I was not questioning the quality of the Lumin or the rationale for getting one. Joe and Mike love theirs, so there must be something to it. Mike speaks about the SQ benefit from the tight integration of Dac+ streamer. My Boston Pal went full Spatial Computing (Controlled directivity/Active X-over/Open Baffle bass/TriAmped w Job225) with a Prism Titan and says it is the end of the road for him! While another has a Big7 and MSB Platinum Stack running with a maxxed out CAPS server, with Windows 2012 Server and Audiophile Optimser runnibg in Core Mode using JRiver and tells me that he is in Nirvana. Many ways to skin a cat. All roads lead to Rome eventually.

I am dealing with the subject matter of the thread here, which is an intellectual matter. In order to clarify intent, I am asking if the OP wants to find out of the Lumin benefits from upsampling all to high rate DSD or if any computer upsampling to high rate DSD is better than native. two different questions!
Click to expand...

Yes, I think that is what he is asking.

I mean as the Lumin is concerned.
 
But he said:

Since there are a few of us now - and I don't think this is limited to Lumin users - I am wondering how many of you upsample your recordings. It was simple with my DAC2X as I didn't have a choice (everything was upsampled) but the Lumin let's you play everything native or you can pick and choose specific sample rates to upsample.
 
Interesting post from Geoff A. from CompA here:

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by joelhaI realize how unrealistic my question is, but I feel compelled to ask just the same. For those who are able to upsample to DSD256, how would you compare the sound to a redbook file played on a top tier DAC (i.e. DCS, Meitner, MSB, etc.)?
Extra credit for noting the DAC you're using and the method employed for upsampling.
Thanks,
Joel
This is actually a big question Joel …and I think you realise this. My own 2 cents worth, from my limited experience is the following:

I think what you're really asking is, what is the difference between a "top tier" DAC that can work all the wonders for you and a more affordable DAC where "all the wonders" are performed by the software running on the PC and the DAC's role is relatively dumb. Am I right?

In the "top tier dac" category, I would place the Meitner (which I've only heard under show conditions), same for DCS and MSB We should definitely add the PS Audio DirectStream to this list.

These DAC's do the "heavy lifting" for you, inasmuch as they'll take whatever digital stream you feed them and "improve" upon that. I know in the case of the Meitner (also Playback designs) and PS Audio Direct Stream they'll "improve on it" by converting it to DSD.

My focus has been on DAC's that tend to depend more on being fed a good signal to begin with, then do a stellar job of converting that signal to analogue. These would include, exasound, Phasure, Zodiac Platinum and the iFi DACs.

The second category appeals to me, because I've learned recently that software players and other aspects of Computer Audio playback have a huge influence on the sound. Much greater than I'd realised until I discovered HQPlayer and DACs with native ASIO drivers.

HQPlayer and XXHighEnd have proven to me that the combination of software and the computer it's running on allow us to manipulate the sound in such a wide variety of ways, that it's more likely you'll find the perfect settings for your own system and musical tastes.

By contrast the DACs that aim to improve on the signal they're fed don't provide you with all those choices or control.

This is not a clear cut, black and white contrast though of course, because as long as a computer is used as the source you can still influence the sound significantly with software.

What I've learned, specifically with the help of HQPlayer and XXHighEnd is that the filters used in up-sampling Redbook can greatly improve on the sound of standard Redbook and in software we have a lot of flexibility for influencing the sound.

I've also learned that the way the computer speaks to the DAC(sound card) also has a major impact. I have a slight preference for native ASIO over DOP when converting rebook to DSD (although DOP is very practical), and the influence of whether the file is WAV/AIFF or FLAC or something else is also now very clear.

Additionally the demands made on your CPU depending on any up-sampling/conversion methods you're using can have a significant impact on SQ.

Using the exasound DSD256 or similar iFi DACs with a player such as HQPlayer can yield miraculous result with Redbook sources; but watch that your CPU stays within, or well below 50%, or you may experience adverse influence on the sound from stressed resources.

The Antelope Zodiac Platinum is an interesting DAC, because for me it walks a line between the two categories above. What you can do is convert to DSD64 in software under Mac or Windows and then let the Platinum further lift that to DSD256. Similar options are available for PCM. So, depending on your computer's resources you can balance the processing between the Computer and DAC. To my ears this is yielding very satisfactory results.

I hope you find it useful.
 
I'm wondering, 1.5 years later, if there are any new thoughts on whether to set the Lumin for up sampling or playing
in native?
 
For a bit I tried converting to DSD, and I thought it sounded good. However, when I went back to native format I felt it was slightly better. I think I will revisit this option over the weekend.
 
iFi Micro-iDSD+iTube+iUSB kit arrives today. Hopefully I will get another stiffy this weekend and try some more upsampling through the iFi. Upsampling via the Nano was an unexpected surprise.

So far iFi DAC price/performance value shines.
 
Lemme know how it sounds Steve. Did you get an Uptone Regen to go with that?
 
Parcel was delayed, hopefully tomorrow now. Haven't ordered the Uptone Regan yet, plan to do that but do have the iFi iPurifer to begin with.
 
I have the iPurifier too. NOT needed for the iDSD Micro, as it already has an iPurifier built into it.

More interesting would be to try the iUSB Power with the Micro.

BTW, what time is it where you are in Oz now?
 
BlueFox said:
For a bit I tried converting to DSD, and I thought it sounded good. However, when I went back to native format I felt it was slightly better. I think I will revisit this option over the weekend.
Click to expand...

I agree with Bud, I prefer native in my system.
 
I think when the differences might be subtle, and when human hearing and the human brain are involved, it is almost impossible to make a reliable conclusion as to which may sound better. There's just too much delay between switching from native to up sampled, so that it's more about memory of sound instead of actual comparison.

When I demoed my speakers, I was able to hear them compared to 2 other pairs with an attenuator that allowed me to seamlessly cycle through the different speakers. I was able to distinguish very subtle differences between the speakers that would have been hopeless had I had go through a multi step process that might take at least several seconds. This is the problem I'm running into trying to distinguish between up sampled and native on the Lumin...
 
Willco said:
I think when the differences might be subtle, and when human hearing and the human brain are involved, it is almost impossible to make a reliable conclusion as to which may sound better. There's just too much delay between switching from native to up sampled, so that it's more about memory of sound instead of actual comparison.

When I demoed my speakers, I was able to hear them compared to 2 other pairs with an attenuator that allowed me to seamlessly cycle through the different speakers. I was able to distinguish very subtle differences between the speakers that would have been hopeless had I had go through a multi step process that might take at least several seconds. This is the problem I'm running into trying to distinguish between up sampled and native on the Lumin...
Click to expand...

I agree it's not easy. The way I compared was to stay with one of the upsample options for a few days to see how I liked it over time, then switch back to native. I'm not about to say native is better, just that I preferred it.
 
Is there a way to switch back and forth on the fly to compare Native and DSD Up-sampled?
I believe I read in Mike's review that it can be done, but I can't figure anything but a multi-step process.
 
Never mind. It does switch on the fly sort of. But it goes back to the beginning of the track.
 
wisnon said:
I have the iPurifier too. NOT needed for the iDSD Micro, as it already has an iPurifier built into it.

More interesting would be to try the iUSB Power with the Micro.

BTW, what time is it where you are in Oz now?
Click to expand...

Yes of course, iPurifer was bought for the Nano. Box did not arrive today. :( Looks like after the weekend. We are 14 hours ahead of the Eastern USA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top