Tubes are needed.

mep said:
Rob-I have no idea what "highly touted SS phono stages" you are talking about, but one thing I do know is that they can't be that good in terms of S/N ratio if they have as much noise as a tube phono stage. I have been around tubes my entire life and I know that you can't send a microvolt signal to a tube and expect to hear an output signal with no noise. I used to buy AAA graded tubes from Mike Elliott which he said required rejecting 100 tubes in order to find one tube that would meet his AAA noise requirements. And quiet today doesn't mean quiet tomorrow.
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the best pure tube 'stages i've tried reach a precipice at ~45-50 db of gain before they get too noisy. SS stages like the klyne, Krell, Pass, Whest and sutherland I've owned were capable of 65+ db of gain but also suffered from significant noise at that level. The work around that did it for me was lowering the gain to around 50 db and making it up with a high gain line stage (20+ db). I've found this pretty much evened the playing field between tubes and SS (noise-wise). there are many moving pieces of course i.e. your cart's output voltage, amps input sensitivity, speaker sensitivity etc.
 
Definitely compulsory as ss gives me tinnitus :yahoo1:
 
bzr said:
Definitely compulsory as ss gives me tinnitus :yahoo1:
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bzr,

Being as you're fairly new to this tube thing - might I ask what type of tubes are needed?, and what's the component brand or model they're to be used with?, as I've been studying tubes brands based upon their factory sound since 2003, I've come across some very nice sounding tubes over the years since - as well as have gained more inside into how to use this or that American tubes sound to counterbalance those of European or Japanese built tubes or factories sound to create a more collective approach to matching their respective sonic signatures to match that of the end user.

Maybe I can help in one form or another?, but in my mind tubes as someone mentioned elsewhere merely allow a more emotional reaction to be found between and around the notes in a manner many solid state components gloss over - yet in certain areas like phono-stages solid state can I fact be a blessing in regards to gain, as well as more silences between the notes themselves - as well as in how some are capable of actually bending the notes.

But that's a story for another day.

Once again - if I'm able to add some suggestions?, please feel free to just leave me a PM - and I shall respond accordingly.
 
wisnon said:
Thanks Steve,

I am sure(Germany/Austria), BUT, a French Barn may even be better. French tubes are often GREAT and relatively unknown outside of France. Good thing a buddy pointed me to the ones to look out for. Unfortunately, CH is way more aligned to Germany and Holland for tubes, as the Barn barely had any French tubes. The Barn is loaded mostly with Phillips, Siemens, Tungsram and Telefunken...or should I say was, as recently he has been picked clean of the most demanded stuff.
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Hi Norman,

Im still waiting to hear your impression of the Leak Stereo 20 - but lest you wish to see the tubes that perform best with your ears/system - there are times where one has to hoard as many as they can before sharing these names/brands unless of course you wish to see them disappear even quicker then they already are?, hence having 8 - 13 pairs of any given signal tube or upwards of 6 - 10 quads of power tubes needed.

Just a thought.
 
Yes,

I dont post that kind of impression too publicly, for sure. Not much listening done as we have tons of house work for thr Yuletide season. I am using a mixture of Mulls and Phillips MW tubes. at the moment.

In terms of the Barn, I have gotten my pals and I took pick it reltively clean for the moment. I have about 10-15 ECC83 and about 20-30 EL84s, but not all tested yet.

ECC81 and 82 picked clean by a noted Dac maker.

I suspect that Barn will takes month to get back to normal supply status.

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Oscar just the same as one ss has a different sound signature to the next, as are tubes the same. Appreciate the offer but will soldier on & experiment with the tone controls, I mean roll some tubes before I go "barny"
 
Sorry Kev, nothing left in the Barn…picked clean! LoL

I think the point Oscar was making was that tube election will make a big difference to the SAME tube amp. The equivalent in a SS device would be opamp rolling.

It is common consensus that most modern prod tubes dont beat the right vintage tubes. I can tell you that one NYC pal scored some EL34 thru me and EL84. He found that the 34s were Phillips rebranded Mullards with XF codes and he nearly went bonkers with delight! The Phillips Holland 84s have not left his amps months later and he didnte even try the Siemens I sent!

For the Leak Stereo 20, the seller (my new buddy) said the barn Phillips Miniwatts beat the vintage Mullards he supplied me with. I have both and will see for myself eventually, plus will compare to PHILLIPS HOLLAND AND TUNGSRAM/SIEMENS.
 
The barn would have to be empty after all the reference. I am aware.
 
wisnon said:
Yes,

I dont post that kind of impression too publicly, for sure. Not much listening done as we have tons of house work for thr Yuletide season. I am using a mixture of Mulls and Phillips MW tubes. at the moment.

In terms of the Barn, I have gotten my pals and I took pick it reltively clean for the moment. I have about 10-15 ECC83 and about 20-30 EL84s, but not all tested yet.

ECC81 and 82 picked clean by a noted Dac maker.

I suspect that Barn will takes month to get back to normal supply status.

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I hear that - and your amp looks wonderfully rebuilt. Be thee well.
 
bzr said:
Oscar just the same as one ss has a different sound signature to the next, as are tubes the same. Appreciate the offer but will soldier on & experiment with the tone controls, I mean roll some tubes before I go "barny"
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bzr,

Solider on indeed. And yes it can cause said differences, enjoy the tone controls.
 
wisnon said:
Sorry Kev, nothing left in the Barn…picked clean! LoL

I think the point Oscar was making was that tube election will make a big difference to the SAME tube amp. The equivalent in a SS device would be opamp rolling.

It is common consensus that most modern prod tubes dont beat the right vintage tubes. I can tell you that one NYC pal scored some EL34 thru me and EL84. He found that the 34s were Phillips rebranded Mullards with XF codes and he nearly went bonkers with delight! The Phillips Holland 84s have not left his amps months later and he didnte even try the Siemens I sent!

For the Leak Stereo 20, the seller (my new buddy) said the barn Phillips Miniwatts beat the vintage Mullards he supplied me with. I have both and will see for myself eventually, plus will compare to PHILLIPS HOLLAND AND TUNGSRAM/SIEMENS.
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Thanks Norman - you got my drift.
 
Sometimes I wonder how many people have blown up their gear because they installed (I hate the word "rolled") the wrong tube(s) in their gear because they are absolutely clueless on what tubes can be substituted safely. Fess up if you have blown up any gear. :hey:
 
Nada,nyet, nope, no way, nah! But then again I "roll' not just install!
 
A tube tester is essential if you have tube gear. Especially if you are a high roller.
 
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