Tubed Power Amplifiers. Are the disadvantages too great ?

That's pretty overwhelming statistical evidence right there. Between that and its used in space too, I mean, c'mon Joe. What disadvantage??
 
AJ Soundfield said:
You use tube amps in your home audio system Nicoff?
If not, there is very good reason to do so. Tubes are used in deeps space probes.
No idea what Joe R is on about disadvantages.
Carry on.
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No tubes here. I like the simplicity of SS. [emoji16]
 
Kingrex said:
Darn you guys. Now I had to text my friends at Blue Origin to see if Jeff buddy is using tubes in his rockets.

Of course, a rocket is a lot different than a satellite. But, we shall see if the laugh at me.
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I don't think any of the rockets we launched at Vandenberg when I was writing software to assist in the launches had tubes... then again, I could be wrong :D. :dunno: (very secretive you know)

Hey, Migs used to use tubes... so that is pretty much proof positive right there!
 
Joseph R. said:
Just simple ones, like tube degradation, low power, limited ability to handle less than 8 ohm loads, bass overhang, rolled off high frequencies, quality tube availability, high cost of power tubes, need for a vacuum tube tester, tube biasing, tube matching, sound variability dependent on tube brand or date of manufacture, total tube failure, high heat and overall reliability.

I understand that all of these rarely apply. But every one can be a possibility and therefore a trade off. Oh, and I forgot that sometimes the tubes needed go out of production. The stock pile of NOS is not going to last forever.
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This seems a rather one sided, slanted, biased view of the two technologies. It sure sounds like you came in with preconceptions rather than asking a question. Solid-state products have had just as many issues as tubes over the years too.

It also seems that most of your “issues” with tube electronics refer to gear from 30+ years ago. No one today complains about tube biasing. Generally two or three times while breaking in and then the tubes stay pretty stable. Same goes with tube matching. High price? Bass overhang? Rolled off upper octaves? Low power? Can’t drive less than 8 ohm? Seriously? Where are you getting that from? My ART300s are quite happy driving my Magico S5 Mk. 2s as were the original ART amps were driving ML Summit-X stats.

Shall we talk biasing for a moment? Jadis, VAC and a few others employ automatic biasing. cj’s is so simple a three year old could do it. IIRC, all you need to do is look at a simple meter with ARC amps. VTL even lets you know when a tube needs to be replaced.

For the record (appropriate for an analog lover), I’ve had exactly three issues with cj amplifiers in 35 years. One was a blown resistor in a seven year old MV75A1 (even Krell KSA 50s or 100 were known to blow an output transistor then), an issue with the power transformer in an MV125 and a small issue with my ART300s.

Like all the original Marantz solid-State gear blowing up.

Or the reliability issues ss manufacturers ran into with the early generation of surface mount components and wave soldering.

Or that solid-state amplifiers can drive all speakers? I know cases where just the opposite was true and the speaker caused a two highly regarded solid-State amps to shut down while the tube amps kept pumping out the music quite happily.

Or wide bandwidth solid-state electronics picking up TV stations.

Or that many solid-state parts go out of production very quickly. Hence, long term repairs of ss gear can be dodgy unlike tube components.

I think that whatever small conveniences exist are more than made up by the sound quality.

Perhaps this thread would be better served by focusing on customer service and repair records of all companies because things happen beyond their control.
 
Myles.......Thanks for bringing your point of view to the discussion, and refocusing on the original topic. The clowning around gets old quick.
 
jdandy said:
Myles.......Thanks for bringing your point of view to the discussion, and refocusing on the original topic. The clowning around gets old quick.
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It certainly does Dan.
 
Question: Tubed Power Amplifiers. Are the disadvantages too great ?

The Hifi market worldwide today gives you a clear answer: No.

The rest is personal and conversation.
 
tube-vds said:
Question: Tubed Power Amplifiers. Are the disadvantages too great ?

The Hifi market worldwide today gives you a clear answer: No.

The rest is personal and conversation.
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Well said.
 
mep said:
Well said.
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Reliability is an objective metric. It's just that there probably is no hard data on actual problem/failure numbers, just old guys talking anecdotes among themselves. With utmost seriousness of course.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Reliability is an objective metric. It's just that there probably is no hard data on actual problem/failure numbers, just old guys talking anecdotes among themselves. With utmost seriousness of course.
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You are correct about reliability being an objective measurement. The hard data is in the hands of the OEMs who repair their gear and track their failure modes. Audiophiles don’t have access to that data which leads to old guys swapping war stories.
 
I assembled my first high-end audio system 51 years ago. In the ensuing years I have owned so much audio equipment I could fill a boutique audio shop front to back if I had it all back. I have had so few repair issues with equipment during this half century of time as to be considered nearly insignificant. There has been no noteworthy difference with repair issues between my solid state gear or my tube gear. One type of gear versus the other has not demonstrated that either has gained notoriety over the other.

Right now, as luck would have it, I have a service issue with a solid state piece of equipment. My Aurender N100H music server AMOLED screen failed. I usually kept the screen set to display the artist and song titles. I began to notice the display becoming dimmer by the day. Then last week the screen turned a whitish pink color and froze so that the Aurender Conductor app no longer communicated with the screen. I could not turn it off. A hard reboot of the music server did nothing to correct the problem. When playing songs the music server continued to perform flawless, just the screen failed. Aurender answered my support email within a half an hour, issued me an RMA number, and N100H was shipped back to the Irvine, California service center yesterday for a new AMOLED screen to be installed. Thank goodness I have other source components in the living room sound system so I am not high and dry for music.


48732565162_880a6858a8_z.jpg



It just goes to demonstrate that any component can have an issue at any moment that requires technical service. Parts occasionally fail whether solid state or vacuum tube based. It's the nature of the electronic beast. None the less, my total service related incidents compared to the total components I have owned over 51 years has been inconsequential. It's a given that there will be issues from time to time, and certainly nothing to spend much energy worrying about.
 
jdandy said:
My Aurender N100H music server AMOLED screen failed.
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Joe R is talking about tube amplifiers vs SS amplifiers, quite specifically.
Basically the tube fan club here is saying there is either no difference in reliability and yearly service needs, like replacing power tubes and in fact, tube amps may be the more reliable less finicky option. Of course reality and high enders are two different worlds entirely.
Btw, off the top of my head, I currently own a least 6 different tube components, including amplifiers. Reliability and non-finickyness aren't the reasons why.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Joe R is talking about tube amplifiers vs SS amplifiers, quite specifically.
Basically the tube fan club here is saying there is either no difference in reliability and yearly service needs, like replacing power tubes and in fact, tube amps may be the more reliable less finicky option. Of course reality and high enders are two different worlds entirely.
Btw, off the top of my head, I currently own a least 6 different tube components, including amplifiers. Reliability and non-finickyness aren't the reasons why.
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AJ.......I understand the original topic. I am simply pointing out as a general rule that reliability of audio components can prove elusive no matter the design concept, and may inflict failure issues on any component at any given time without warning.

With respect to service issues and tube amplification, one thing that appeals to me is the ability to check tube performance at will, and by keeping track of the gain and transconductance numbers some problems can be identified in advance of them becoming performance or service issues. That's why I invested in tube testing equipment. No doubt about it, due diligence is a bit more demanding with tube amplifiers. Some people are not willing to embrace the effort and cost and that's fine, but in my opinion the effort and expense is rewarded many times over in pure musical enjoyment and peace of mind.
 
jdandy said:
That's why I invested in tube testing equipment. No doubt about it, due diligence is a bit more demanding with tube amplifiers.
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That may have been the central theme of Joe's position. He never once argued against the sound satisfaction factor. In fact, he unambiguously stated that was not an issue.
As you say, some folks don't mind all the extra effort, others apparently do...and simultaneously aren't settling for second fiddle with their choice of sonics in spite of this.
 
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