KT77-While I find your postings about different tube manufacturers and the factories they were made in and what clothes the workers were wearing on a given day when tubes were manufactured in said plant to be mildly entertaining, I hope that people don't accept everything you say as gospel. It's all a little too over the top with opinions masquerading as facts.
When you make comments such as this:
-I find it hard to take you seriously. Given the provenance of tubes from back in the glory days of tube manufacturing around the world is damn near impossible to trace because we don't have DNA tests for tubes, many people can be fooled into thinking they like a certain tube from a certain company when the reality is the tube may well have been manufactured by another tube company half way around the world. Tube companies helping each other out with tube production was basically standard practice. I have RCA boxed and branded 6922 tubes that were made by Mullard. I have had RCA branded and boxed EL-34 tubes that were Mullard XF2 EL-34s. To make blanket statements that companies like RCA or Tung-Sol didn't make very good sounding tubes and Westinghouse kicked their ass is just nonsense.
I also thought the statement about American rectifiers being the "best" a little interesting. One of the most common tube rectifiers used in tube audio gear was the GZ-34/5AR4. And yes, I have had RCA branded/boxed 5AR4s that were actually Mullard GZ-34s. I also have some Amperex branded GZ-34s with the Bugle Boy label that are Mullard tubes. If there is a GZ-34 known to outlast the Mullard version, I haven't heard of it yet.
The other thing to keep in mind is that different tube types/brands will sound different depending upon the circuit they are used in which makes it hard to make universal declarations about how a particular tube brand sounds. Beware of guides who can and will lead you down blind alleys where you will be *mugged* for your tube money. Remember, at the end of the day, people are just giving you their opinions which certainly aren't supportable by any facts. The best you can do is buy from reputable sellers who actually have the ability to test, grade, and match the tubes you want to buy. The amount of crap "NOS" tubes on the market is just incredible. The amount of tubes being sold as "NOS" when in fact they are quite used is also incredible. That's why it's important to trust who you buy from. Going on Ebay and buying "NOS" tubes and hoping they really are new and are remotely close to being matched even though the seller says they are while also hoping the tubes won't have gas, shorts, and be microphonic enough that you could sing through them at a Karaoke bar is about the same odds as going to a whorehouse and riding bareback and hoping you don't come out with some STDs.
Hi mep,
While I'll agree with you on some points, I can't on others, as I was asked to talk about 12A_7 and EL84 and EL34 types specifically - yet I'm well versed in other tube types as well. I don't want others to take my words as the gospel, far from it, it's merely a means if discussing the tubes I've actually taken time to purchase and compare side by side with other brands as installed in 5 different tube Integrated's I've owned since said date of 2003, and going beyond that by shipping them to friends in England - France - Greece - Germany - Hong Kong - Canada - Indonesia - Malaysia - Japan whom all have much more expensive systems then I, yet can seemingly come to like wise conclusions, whereas our findings are similar, as based upon what each of us has heard.
If someone hasn't actually taken the time to spend more then a few minutes comparing said Westinghouse to an RCA Long Carbonized Black Plate w/. Square Getter, and honestly know what to listen for?, then they just might miss what I'm getting at, but in all honesty. If one uses say the Tubemonger Tube Library or merely take it upon themselves to seriously study the internal structure of any given tube regardless of what's written on their boxes or glass, as I think I mentioned earlier, it then becomes much much easier to know what you're buying, case in point - I've purchased tubes labeled as Tungsram ECC83/12AX7 made in Vienna, Austria that were actually nothing more then Lorenz ECC83/12AX7 Long Plates with 4 Silver Corner Bumpers located at top and bottom of their plates, which is its common tell take sign, but only those whom have studied it or the differences would've actually been able to catch that.
And for the record, I do like the sound of RCA and Tung-Sol Long Black Plate 12A_7 types w/. Square Getter ( where said Tung-Sol versions were made for them by RCA between 1950/53 ), yet it's not saying much if someone hasn't compared them to less known brands, just based upon ones assumption because RCA started the production of 12A_7 types tubes back in the 40s, that they can't be bettered, unless I'm missing something here?. And even then, what is said person listening to/for?, as we go about accessing the sonics of tubes from slightly different perspectives do we not?, some focus their attentions on thinks like the treble - midrange - bass response, while some might listen to how said tubes relates the tone of a female vocalist phasing technique or how it does tone shadings or pitch which are just as relevant.
But it's all subjective - at best, is it not?. In much the same manner those whom have become accustomed to cartridges like Koetsu or Ikea very seldom purchase other brands, as it's a means of conditioning our minds/ears to what moves us each on an emotional level, where again, there aren't any rights or wrongs, but what they end user knows feels right to them.
I'm not a tube seller, yet I've shared tubes with quite a few over the years, whom have reported back they've liked my ears/taste and recommendations, but I'm much more concerned about offering music lovers options to the tubes that are overlooked - unknown - under appreciated because of what?, because of what " others " have said I've to own/hear!, I think not. But if some would prefer to be closed minded and sit in the same olde seat on the bus year after year after year, without knowing there are other seats available to them, then more power to them.
I'm more about opening minds, as opposed to shutting them down, and merely try my best to share said unknown gems based upon not only my ears, but countless friends whom have had to tubes sent to them as well.............., and as we should all know, different systems do indeed sound different, yet if certain tubes is capable of bringing each one of these users in say 37 different systems to the same results, and each hears the good, bad or Indifferences in these tubes, that's when I tend to look upon matters in a more " generalized mindset ", because all 37 of us aren't likely to hear the same things, are we?.
Once again, I'm not a pimp of wares/tubes, lies, misconceptions, just a guy trying to expand ones minds as to the fact there are plenty of tube options out there, that remain undiscovered.
Yet it's the ones whom hear these tubes that know what I'm getting at.............., consult your local tube dealer and see what even some of them don't know............, ask them about the sound of NEC - TEN Kobe Japanese tubes, and see what they've to add!, nothing, because all of the Japanese tubes look the same, and were treated as such.
Just food for thought, but don't believe me, shit........, I'm just a music lover whom would rather spend my money on tubes and music, instead of components, as I stated earlier............., my system moves me, now about yours?, or do you feel a need to change something?, I thought so..............., once again as my mentor taught me, knowledge is power and those that don't know are stuck in the BS world of not knowing.
It's all good..............., more great sounding tubes for me to know about, while others will find themselves trying to guess what's what.
h, mep,
