To Pre or not to Pre? What shall thy be?

F

fife

New member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
13
Location
Canada
For those that have (used) the SS-xxx amps, would you still recommend a Pre-Amp if you just have a one source digital setup? By foregoing a pre, one can go with a top notch source for the cost savings (pre and cables) and the Vitus attenuator ain’t no slouch either.
Many times you see a source (SCD) with Vitus Amp only unless there is an analog rig at most shows.
Would appreciate your thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ALWAYS preamp! Digital volume controls generally suck, and so do often passive buffered analog preamps. I have had a Pass B1 buffer for too long, and I cannot believe how much of a difference the acquisition of an Octave HP 700 preamp in my digital-only system made. It was transformative (the less expensive Octave HP 300 SE preamp is also good, but not as good).
 
I have found some things are better going direct. But ultimately I found using a preamp or integrated more satisfying.
 
If your rolling with one source, and it’s a good one then I guess maybe your ok, and you can always add one later.

But I do feel the Pre is the heart of your system and helps shape the tone, something I would not live without.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
I’ve always preferred a preamp, either tube or great passive. Unless you have a top of the line MSB dac, I like what preamps add, a little air, slightly warmer sound depending, a little fuller and more musical sound. Direct is more detailed, more matter of fact, more exact but less musical to me.
 
joeinid said:
I’ve always preferred a preamp, either tube or great passive. Unless you have a top of the line MSB dac, I like what preamps add, a little air, slightly warmer sound depending, a little fuller and more musical sound. Direct is more detailed, more matter of fact, more exact but less musical to me.
Click to expand...

Depends on the preamp. Mine delivers both the full tone and all the detail you want -- micro-detail of timbre, separation of instruments etc.

I also would not describe it as less exact; I perceive the fuller tone not as coloration, but as better preservation of the original signal, without "bleaching out". It is less about addition, but more about lack of subtraction.

This assessment is not just based on what I perceive as natural tone, but also on preservation of the tonal differences between recordings. If it were a coloration, it would overlay a sameness on everything.
 
Do not really see the benefit in this no-preamp thing. So far, I yet have to hear a system that sounds better without. For me it’s either an integrated or pre/ power combo.

My feeling is the argument is a clumsy effort used to justify overpriced source components, mainly by MSB. Have not heard that argument from other manufacturers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Big B said:
I would like to see where this thread goes.
Click to expand...

I’m sure the MSB faction will soon chime in [emoji3]. And the MSB DACs are very good, but I’d still prefer a preamp in the chain.

But there are others who have done it before. The idea was originally introduced by Linn to add more value/ functionality to their DS line of DAC streamers. While good, they’re not quite on the level of dedicated preamps, as they present a compromise.

Also, I do have something similar in my system, as the Soulution 520 is a preamp, where an in-built phono stage utilizes the resources of the main preamp. But that is two preamps in one, not a source adding a preamp.

Of the Soulution 520 JV says it was the best solid state preamp he had heard, until the introduction of its larger sibling Soulution 725. But both are preamps, not DACs adding preamps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
The preamp modules, an option in the REF DAC and standard in the Select DAC are as good as any solid state preamp I’ve heard. The VC in the discrete and premier is not quite up to the level of a really good solid state preamp, but still good, not unlike the VC on the DAVE.

What I hear with the full MSB preamp module (instead of adding a standard preamp in the chain) is a greater transparency to source.

That being said, if someone likes a little color, as I do, a tube preamp or different flavor solid state preamp by all means is a good way to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you have unlimited funds a preamp would probably add some enhancement. In my case I do not have unlimited funds. Previously I was using the aesthetix Calypso signature preamp and the Pandora dac with volume control. Non this setup i preferred the preamp in the system. When I got the opportunity to get the aesthetix Pandora Dac i had to sell the Aesthetix Pandora Dac and preamp in order to do so. In my opinion the Pandora eclipse going straight into the Audio Research Ref 75 was a significant improvement over the previous aesthetix combo. I have not tested every combination but my hypothesis of my lone point of reference would be that a standalone Dac with a well designed volume control wii yield a more engaging listening experience than a Dac and preamp combo whose combined cost is close to the cost of the higher end Dac. Given that the Dac is my only source I can’t see pursuing the aesthetix calyspso eclipse preamp, as I would look to possibly update the amp or speakers before movinng in this direction.
 
Mike said:
The preamp modules, an option in the REF DAC and standard in the Select DAC are as good as any solid state preamp I’ve heard. The VC in the discrete and premier is not quite up to the level of a really good solid state preamp, but still good, not unlike the VC on the DAVE.
Click to expand...

I have heard the VC of the Premier being bettered quite dramatically in a system by a Spectral DMA 30-SV preamp. I think it does not do justice to the quality of the DAC.
 
Welcome to the forum!

Mattkim96 said:
If you have unlimited funds a preamp would probably add some enhancement. In my case I do not have unlimited funds. Previously I was using the aesthetix Calypso signature preamp and the Pandora dac with volume control. Non this setup i preferred the preamp in the system. When I got the opportunity to get the aesthetix Pandora Dac i had to sell the Aesthetix Pandora Dac and preamp in order to do so. In my opinion the Pandora eclipse going straight into the Audio Research Ref 75 was a significant improvement over the previous aesthetix combo. I have not tested every combination but my hypothesis of my lone point of reference would be that a standalone Dac with a well designed volume control wii yield a more engaging listening experience than a Dac and preamp combo whose combined cost is close to the cost of the higher end Dac. Given that the Dac is my only source I can’t see pursuing the aesthetix calyspso eclipse preamp, as I would look to possibly update the amp or speakers before movinng in this direction.
Click to expand...
 
I think it all comes to down the “ system “ approach regarding a pre amp.

Hopefully we will hear from the gentleman on this forum who owns the Select II and has purchased the new Msb monoblocks.

We can assume that he can afford to add any pre amp in the world he wants if that setup doesn’t suffice for him.

also , audio reviewer Jeff Fritz praised his Soulution 560 into his 711 amp.

So , at this level as msb and soulution ; most likely a pre amp isn’t necessary.

it simply comes down to synergy and of course the technology being implemented.

who wouldn’t want one less box ? Less cable ? More simple and with a higher resolution and more transparent sound ?

At their prices : coloration shouldn’t be accepted.
 
mdp632 said:
who wouldn’t want one less box ? Less cable ? More simple and with a higher resolution and more transparent sound ?

At their prices : coloration shouldn’t be accepted.
Click to expand...

...and I don't accept the notion that a preamp is necessarily colored or less transparent and resolving. Perhaps the preamp modules in the MSB Reference and Select II DACs are the most transparent option for these DACs, but other DACs typically work less well direct than through high quality preamp.
 
Al M. said:
I have heard the VC of the Premier being bettered quite dramatically in a system by a Spectral DMA 30-SV preamp. I think it does not do justice to the quality of the DAC.
Click to expand...

Did you read what I wrote? The VC is just ok, like the DAVE VC. It’s not at the preamp module level or even close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Al M. said:
...and I don't accept the notion that a preamp is necessarily colored or less transparent and resolving. Perhaps the preamp modules in the MSB Reference and Select II DACs are the most transparent option for these DACs, but other DACs typically work less well direct than through high quality preamp.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but no other manufacturer has put that kind of effort into a proper preamp integrated into a DAC either. Most do a simple volume attenuator like the Lampi, DAVE, MSB Discrete, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top