The Ultimate turntable?

annapolis Raider said:
Kuzma XL owner here... I have 2 Four Points on mine. Mine is also on a Minus K platform. The new DC motor/belt and controller comes from the Kuzma M. It is a subtle improvement on an already state of the art contender.
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When did you upgrade to the DC & was yours an XL2 or XL4 ? I have a 4Point and the Airline arms on mine . I dread the idea of an upgrade.......
 
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The ultimate TT for me if it don't have any problems with Zero Point.

If its a ball bearing - ZP comes from a not so good under-dimensioned ball bearing, plus a to small motor pulley and a weak motor.

One should also avoid acryl platters because of the electrostatic charge - you don't want 10000V into your phono stage.
And magnetic bearing because of it's stray field - this will affect your MC, actually with that bearing one will not hear what's is capable of.
 
wizard said:
The ultimate TT for me if it don't have any problems with Zero Point.

If its a ball bearing - ZP comes from a not so good under-dimensioned ball bearing, plus a to small motor pulley and a weak motor.

One should also avoid acryl platters because of the electrostatic charge - you don't want 10000V into your phono stage.
And magnetic bearing because of it's stray field - this will affect your MC, actually with that bearing one will not hear what's is capable of.
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Really? Did you ever hear of grounding?
 
wizard said:
The ultimate TT for me if it don't have any problems with Zero Point.

If its a ball bearing - ZP comes from a not so good under-dimensioned ball bearing, plus a to small motor pulley and a weak motor.

One should also avoid acryl platters because of the electrostatic charge - you don't want 10000V into your phono stage.
And magnetic bearing because of it's stray field - this will affect your MC, actually with that bearing one will not hear what's is capable of.
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Wizard you are a guy who gets around and knows his stuff.
I have a acrylic platter and a Magnetic bearing never had a problem to date and I do have a MC cartridge.
A few people are down on Acrylic but never for electrostatic charge that I have heard of.
Just asking what you have heard or seen.
 
So why do you Clearaudio changes to POM platter on Statement 2 - one was the electrostatic problems on MK 1.
Yes you can ground it and spray on antistatic spray on the platter, this will help for a couple of weeks and then it builds up again.

About Magnetic stray fields - to check for it put a compass close to the TT or close to the cart when it play a record, and the compass will have problems to show north.

Anyone don't have a question about Zero Point, you all know about it already?, and if it's big enough the TT will have a lot of speed errors.
 
wizard said:
So why do you Clearaudio changes to POM platter on Statement 2 - one was the electrostatic problems on MK 1.
Yes you can ground it and spray on antistatic spray on the platter, this will help for a couple of weeks and then it builds up again.

About Magnetic stray fields - to check for it put a compass close to the TT or close to the cart when it play a record, and the compass will have problems to show north.

Anyone don't have a question about Zero Point, you all know about it already?, and if it's big enough the TT will have a lot of speed errors.
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Well I think putting the price up to 200,000 needed some changes POM being one of them. I have never sprayed my platter with anything never a problem.
I will give your compass a try next time I find a compass. I would ask another owner but their are only 5 statements in Canada. Not saying this problem has never happened I have not heard of it is all. I still think the Magnetic bearing fixes more than it hurts IMO. Thanks for the info.
 
Anyone with two of these laying around I will trade all three of mine for one.
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What I see with a lot of these great tables is much of the same in terms of an approach to ultimately and most effectively spinning the record. I see varying degrees of mass and motors. And yes, I would love to own lots of them, actually, all of them! But if I'm being honest, what I don't see is anything truly innovative, like the Kronos. Arms and cartridges, yes, lots of great stuff. But on the table itself, not so much.


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Mike said:
What I see with a lot of these great tables is much of the same in terms of approach to ultimately and most effectively spinning the record. I see varying degrees of mass and motors. What I don't see is anything truly innovative, like the Kronos. Arms and cartridges, yes, lots of great stuff. But on the table itself, not so much.


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I think clear audio approaches their models with innovation in materials and technology. There is an upgrade to the innovation wood where a sub unit with platter spins and drives the platter above. Haven't heard it but seems they have tried to nail isolation and speed control in a big way. Then there is Allen Perkins at spiral groove who I think is the master at innovating but putting the accent on perfect execution and evolution of tried and true engineering and user interface for analog setups. Anymore I believe the quality of cartridge and phono preamp plays a bigger role than the table in what we hear in the upper tier of tables.
 
Darrin - all valid points, but those to me, just seem more of the same. None of these items does anything to eliminate smearing like a counter rotating table. At the end of the day, all these tables are great and provide endless listening enjoyment. And thankfully, we don't have to suffer through a flavor of the month table every month! They are all great and appearance has a lot to do with it too.


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Mike said:
What I see with a lot of these great tables is much of the same in terms of an approach to ultimately and most effectively spinning the record. I see varying degrees of mass and motors. And yes, I would love to own lots of them, actually, all of them! But if I'm being honest, what I don't see is anything truly innovative, like the Kronos. Arms and cartridges, yes, lots of great stuff. But on the table itself, not so much.


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I do not even pretend to know what is the Ultimate turntable if their is even such a thing. Your very up on the Kronos and it is a very well built and good sounding table. just a few points the down side or nemesis of any table are 1. vibration out side sources 2. bearing noise 3. belt noise 4 motor noise Kronos has more belts more bearings more platters thus a bigger motor than most tables . The counter rotation works for their design but it adds a lot of moving parts.
Works for them but it is a lot more stuff moving around. It is all a trade off that said I still think it is a good table. As far as designing goes the old KISS has its merits as well. Kiss= keep it simple stupid rather than Kiss=Knights in Satan's service as in the band. It is amazing the time and effort that as gone into Turntable design in resent years. Some very fine work hats off to those with that kind of talent (Hard to believe they could not find a real jobs) just kidding. A great time to be in audio even if it is pricey . Just my 2 cents worth
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Garth - I would check it out and take a closer look if you get a chance. For example, the Kronos only has two belts - one for the top platter and one for the bottom. As for bearing noise, it's dead quiet and the bearings are not only the quietest I've seen, but the best. Without the belt, the platter will spin for what seems like an eternity. There really is no belt noise either that I can hear. As for vibration, there are videos around showing Louis knocking on the side of the table and no noise. It has amazing suspension system. But truly, these details aren't as well known because everyone focuses on its main unique feature - the counter rotating tables which all but eliminate traditional smear.


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I recently acquire the Kuzma Distribution in the Caribbean
Happy to see Kuzma lovers here
:)


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Garth said:
I do not even pretend to know what is the Ultimate turntable if their is even such a thing. Your very up on the Kronos and it is a very well built and good sounding table. just a few points the down side or nemesis of any table are 1. vibration out side sources 2. bearing noise 3. belt noise 4 motor noise Kronos has more belts more bearings more platters thus a bigger motor than most tables . The counter rotation works for their design but it adds a lot of moving parts.
Works for them but it is a lot more stuff moving around. It is all a trade off that said I still think it is a good table. As far as designing goes the old KISS has its merits as well. Kiss= keep it simple stupid rather than Kiss=Knights in Satan's service as in the band. It is amazing the time and effort that as gone into Turntable design in resent years. Some very fine work hats off to those with that kind of talent (Hard to believe they could not find a real jobs) just kidding. A great time to be in audio even if it is pricey . Just my 2 cents worth
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Wizard do not get to close to the screen 10,000 volts may jump out and get you right in your Brown Eyes.
 
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