The ultimate Thriller shootout

I've done my comparisons with the 1983 cd master, the 1999 sacd, and the MFSL sacd and the 2 sacd versions are my clear favorites. Two different takes on the album that do it justice. The MFSL sacd may be more forgiving in brighter systems in ways the 1999 isn't. I'm not sure I could pick a favorite between both sacd discs. They are both fabulously musical!
 
Interesting. I have a 2 reel 15ips 2 track tape copy made from a Studio Master by CBS International in Holland. The original tape with catalogue Epic 85930 listed looks like it was made in 1984, it says 84RE which usually means a reissue from two years after the original release, listed on the data sheet. My copy was dubbed in 2021 from one of my dealers who owned the Studio Master. Interesting to see what a top vinyl or SACD sounds like in comparison. The tapes only have the nine original tracks on them. The small signature and date is from my dealer. The data sheet is a copy of the original, since I just bought a dub of the original tape. Note that CBS International in Holland includes five test tones at the head of the first tape from 15kHz down to 100 Hz, so one can dial in the frequency response to more accurately do a dub. 2022-11-30 00-41.jpeg

Larry
 
astrotoy said:
Interesting. I have a 2 reel 15ips 2 track tape copy made from a Studio Master by CBS International in Holland. The original tape with catalogue Epic 85930 listed looks like it was made in 1984, it says 84RE which usually means a reissue from two years after the original release, listed on the data sheet. My copy was dubbed in 2021 from one of my dealers who owned the Studio Master. Interesting to see what a top vinyl or SACD sounds like in comparison. The tapes only have the nine original tracks on them. The small signature and date is from my dealer. The data sheet is a copy of the original, since I just bought a dub of the original tape. Note that CBS International in Holland includes five test tones at the head of the first tape from 15kHz down to 100 Hz, so one can dial in the frequency response to more accurately do a dub. View attachment 31815

Larry
Click to expand...

You refer to this as a "Studio Master." What do you think this means? A tape used to master LP, tape, and digital from? The only RTR release I see of "Thriller' is a US Columbia House issue so I'm guessing it wasn't for a commercial RTR.
 
astrotoy said:
Interesting. I have a 2 reel 15ips 2 track tape copy made from a Studio Master by CBS International in Holland. The original tape with catalogue Epic 85930 listed looks like it was made in 1984, it says 84RE which usually means a reissue from two years after the original release, listed on the data sheet. My copy was dubbed in 2021 from one of my dealers who owned the Studio Master. Interesting to see what a top vinyl or SACD sounds like in comparison. The tapes only have the nine original tracks on them. The small signature and date is from my dealer. The data sheet is a copy of the original, since I just bought a dub of the original tape. Note that CBS International in Holland includes five test tones at the head of the first tape from 15kHz down to 100 Hz, so one can dial in the frequency response to more accurately do a dub. View attachment 31815

Larry
Click to expand...

Very cool Larry. Tape collecting sure is fun.


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Rnrmf said:
You refer to this as a "Studio Master." What do you think this means? A tape used to master LP, tape, and digital from? The only RTR release I see of "Thriller' is a US Columbia House issue so I'm guessing it wasn't for a commercial RTR.
Click to expand...

Normally a studio master is the same as a production master. That is a copy of the original master tape which is sent to the mastering engineer who then uses it to cut the lacquer for a vinyl pressing or possibly a CD or cassette release. Along with the production master is sent a safety master which is identical and serves as a back up to the production master in case there is a problem. It is not a commercial release. Normally they emerge from the collections of the engineers who sometimes keep the masters for their own collection and eventually may sell them to others. If you look at the Thriller listing on Discogs, there were a ton of releases done in different countries and normally those would have each been pressed in the country using a production master made from the original master tape. So there are probably quite a few floating around in different collections.

Provenance is very important and the dealers I buy from normally have trusted sources, often engineers in different countries. They normally get safety masters, rather than production masters, since the record company's policy is typically to have the production master returned to them, but the safety master is often kept by the engineer as a souvenir of the job. You will see tapes on ebay advertised as masters, or safety masters, or production masters. I NEVER buy from ebay. Vast majority of those tapes are fakes - dubs from CDs typically, or even sometime from vinyl (usually after processing digitally to get rid of clicks and pops). There are ways of telling if it is genuine, but the clues are not certain. For example, if you digitize a tape at high rez (say 192/24) and then examine the waveform (I use Izotope RX3Advanced), if the signal cutoff is extremely sharp at 22kHz, then it is almost certainly sourced from a CD.

Finally, commercial tape releases from the old days were done at 7.5ips or sometimes 3.75ips, and almost all were 1/4 track stereo tapes, duplicated at very high speed (16 times normal speed or even higher). The masters were all duplicated in real time, normally at 15ips 1/2 track (sometimes even on 1/2" tape).

Larry
 
astrotoy said:
Normally a studio master is the same as a production master. That is a copy of the original master tape which is sent to the mastering engineer who then uses it to cut the lacquer for a vinyl pressing or possibly a CD or cassette release. Along with the production master is sent a safety master which is identical and serves as a back up to the production master in case there is a problem. It is not a commercial release. Normally they emerge from the collections of the engineers who sometimes keep the masters for their own collection and eventually may sell them to others. If you look at the Thriller listing on Discogs, there were a ton of releases done in different countries and normally those would have each been pressed in the country using a production master made from the original master tape. So there are probably quite a few floating around in different collections.

Provenance is very important and the dealers I buy from normally have trusted sources, often engineers in different countries. They normally get safety masters, rather than production masters, since the record company's policy is typically to have the production master returned to them, but the safety master is often kept by the engineer as a souvenir of the job. You will see tapes on ebay advertised as masters, or safety masters, or production masters. I NEVER buy from ebay. Vast majority of those tapes are fakes - dubs from CDs typically, or even sometime from vinyl (usually after processing digitally to get rid of clicks and pops). There are ways of telling if it is genuine, but the clues are not certain. For example, if you digitize a tape at high rez (say 192/24) and then examine the waveform (I use Izotope RX3Advanced), if the signal cutoff is extremely sharp at 22kHz, then it is almost certainly sourced from a CD.

Finally, commercial tape releases from the old days were done at 7.5ips or sometimes 3.75ips, and almost all were 1/4 track stereo tapes, duplicated at very high speed (16 times normal speed or even higher). The masters were all duplicated in real time, normally at 15ips 1/2 track (sometimes even on 1/2" tape).

Larry
Click to expand...

Awesome info. Thanks Larry!
 
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