The three second rule

[GaryProtein]

No, I am not using them interchangeably.

I asked about warm-up as a separate question regarding the electronic components in a speaker. Do you think a speaker has a significant warm-up, say more than a few minutes?

 

[just dave]

Where did I deserve this aggression?
I thought this thread was about the fact that we so called audiophiles (and yes, I am one of us) sometimes decieve our ears by mixing-up theories and what we really hear. The poster resumed this in his three second rule. And personally I think he has a point.
I am honest and humble enough to admit that I have been in situations where I was trying to convince myself of a sound quality of a component that was not deserving it. Most of the times I do know how good it is after a very short listening time.
I think most of us know that by pushing the boundaries like we do we sometimes reach the grey zones of reality.

The guys in the video have a few nice examples of how this works sometimes. And I don't claim that they are gurus or audio experts in any way. If you don't like it don't watch it and I don't think I need to screen your personal preferences before posting something relevant to the topic.

I agree.Lighten up.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

I agree.Lighten up.

Dave, you need to read the whole thread.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

I am not utterly impressed by individuals with the name Poppy Crum anyway, unless it's an erotic movie of course...

Hah:lol:
I didn't watch the video (probably won't), but I did recognize the bearded guy to the left, who is this guy. World renown expert in the field of audio perception, old Bell Labs and MSEE too, so knows a thing or two about electronics and signal processing. Not sure if realistic reconstruction of soundfields is any way connected to "High End Audio" today, but he's responsible for this.
I believe the aforementioned John Atkinson considers him a friend and holds him/his (real) hearing acuity in rather high regard .
My 2c on the heresy...excuse me, video you posted.

I would suspect it takes a bit longer than 3 seconds for me to analyze system performance. YMMV.

cheers,

AJ

 

[Myles B. Astor]

Joh

Hah:lol:
I didn't watch the video (probably won't), but I did recognize the bearded guy to the left, who is this guy. World renown expert in the field of audio perception, old Bell Labs and MSEE too, so knows a thing or two about electronics and signal processing. Not sure if realistic reconstruction of soundfields is any way connected to "High End Audio" today, but he's responsible for this.
I believe the aforementioned John Atkinson considers him a friend and holds him/his (real) hearing acuity in rather high regard .
My 2c on the heresy...excuse me, video you posted.

I would suspect it takes a bit longer than 3 seconds for me to analyze system performance. YMMV.

cheers,

AJ

John Johnson. Worked for Bell, MS, etc. One of my writers did a piece 15 years ago on his efforts to develop microphones to record in surround sound. He's actually the most reasonable and knowledgeable of the trio and obviously knows his stuff.

 

[Kt77]

In some areas, I'd very well understand this set of rules, as I myself can tell within say 2 - 3 tracks the character of tubes, whereas most of my friends/associates are always going on and on about how long does it take for them to settle/burn in?. In hindsight I can see how certain signatures can be picked upon in said 3 seconds, but in reality I believe most components aren't fully broken in until after maybe 4 - 6 months of regular usage, or at least that has been my case where a new integrated and pair of speakers didn't fully come on sung until 6 months later.

Now the bad thing of this is, what if I hadn't taken the time to let both settle in?, and would've sold them off immediately based upon what I heard not only in the first 3 seconds, but first five months and three fourths, I'd have been very sad, seeming that this tandem had given me 4 years of joy, until I had decided to go full circle to tubes and a pair of speakers first produced in 1989, yet compared side by side with my more modern speaker - blew them the fuck out the water with a more realistic presentation that emphasized one very important point, just because something's newer, doesn't mean it's better or more musical - just different at best.

Interesting story you've shared there eh!, Mark, and as I've stated earlier on, I'm learning and re-learning a whole lot from you guys, on topics that many forums obviously take for granted.

Thanks to all of you once again, for just being yourselves...........

 

[Mechnutt]

I have about a 30 second rule for tube rolling (broken in tubes), op amp rolling and maybe a little longer (1 minute) for electronic gear and speakers. It's either I like it or not. I will give some gear the benefit of the doubt and let things break in. Certainly tubes need hours of breaking as do speakers.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

I have about a 30 second rule for tube rolling (broken in tubes), op amp rolling and maybe a little longer (1 minute) for electronic gear and speakers. It's either I like it or not. I will give some gear the benefit of the doubt and let things break in. Certainly tubes need hours of breaking as do speakers.

I have a question in making a 30 second decision. Like most things, these decisions are not black and white but shades of grey ergo each tube comes with its own set of strengths and weaknesses. No one tube does it all and how does that factor into your decision?

 

[Mechnutt]

I have a question in making a 30 second decision. Like most things, these decisions are not black and white but shades of grey ergo each tube comes with its own set of strengths and weaknesses. No one tube does it all and how does that factor into your decision?

I have certain music that I play when rolling tubes. If the general tone does not sound good in the initial 30 seconds or so then 95% of the time I won't like the tube upon further more detailed listening. Now I will listen to tube longer, usually 20-30 hours but I find that my initial impressions are correct. If it doesn't sound right in the first minute, then it ain't gonna get better unless the tube is not broken in. Many tubes that I have bought are used old stock that tests like new so they are broken in. (we are talking preamp and dac tubes, not power amp). Brand spanking new tubes usually sound terrible at first so I give them 30 to 100 hours of breakin before making a final decision. I got new 6H30's for my BAT and for the first few hours they sounded terrible.

I do agree with your point that there can be subtle differences that need further more detailed listening. My experience with tubes are limited to 6CG7's, 6N1P's, 6922's, ECC88's, 6H30's and 5670's. I have found major differences between 6CG7's types and among ECC88 types.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

I have certain music that I play when rolling tubes. If the general tone does not sound good in the initial 30 seconds or so the 95% of the time I won't like the tube upon further more detailed listening. Now I will listen to tube longer, usually 20-30 hours but I find that my initial impressions are correct. If it doesn't sound right in the first minute, the it ain't gonna get better unless the tube is not broken in. Many tubes the I have bought are used old stock that tests like new so they are broken in. (we are talking preamp and dac tubes, not power amp). Brand spanking new tubes usually sound terrible at first so I give then 30 to 100 hours of breakin before making a final decision. I got new 6H30's for my BAT and for the first few hours they sounded terrible.

I do agree with your point that there can be subtle differences that need further more detailed listening. My experience with tubes are limited to 6CG7's, 6N1P's, 6922's, ECC88's, 6H30's and 5670's. I have found major differences between 6CG7's types and among ECC88 types.

Thanks lots of good info! It would be interesting to start a thread where people could share their experiences with different NOS (rare nowadays) and new tubes in their gear!