The Smith Chart and...Power Cords

[Mr Peabody]

Keeping their hands in their pockets so much the cable companies are all out of business now. Wait what? There's more cable company's than ever..... WTH

You need to quit

I'd be there in a flash were it not for the thousands of miles between us. The cable and other similar audiophile tweak demos I've seen at audio shows have been generally underwhelming to the extent they have a tinge of the "The Emperor's New Clothes" about them, with many attendees ruefully nodding in recognition of the "massive sound improvement" - yet keeping their hands firmly in their pockets.

Perhaps I should be more open-minded and ask a local dealer to do his best to convince me one way or the other.

 

[ack]

Sorry, but I give up. Without a meter that seems to measure what sounds to me to be a completely harmless (or perhaps a non-existent) effect, and one that my amplifier's power supply should be designed to cope with anyway, I'll stick with my existing simple but effective screened Belden cable. If it's good enough for pro studios, it's good enough for me. But thanks for your explanations anyway.

You are welcome. Yeah, no issues, it's a personal choice as I said. But let it also be known that Shunyata are also advertising recording studios using their cords and conditioners (thank God!), as well their successful applications in the medical field. Perhaps you've read about the cardiologist who tried one of his high-end Shunyata NR cords on the EKG machine in his hospital and was blown away by the clarity of the traces, which eventually then led Shunyata to launch a subsidiary company focused on reducing noise in medical devices? It's called Clear Image Scientific Technology – Clear Image Scientific and if you visit that page, you'll see a better demonstration of the same Entech device plus their specialized cords (also notice the AM-radio conversations picked up by the Entech).

Regarding power supplies in our equipment, roughly a decade ago, I was discussing with an audiophile the exact same thing: why do they need noise treatments. My answer was, they wouldn't if they were the size of refrigerators - not practical, obviously, in high-end applications and apparently medical as well. Then, about five years ago, I was introduced to a retired electrical engineer, also an audiophile, who apparently worked for the Air Force if I recall correctly. He pointed me to a video aboard a military aircraft, and specifically to one of the power supplies he designed for a device on that reconnaissance plane as captured by the video camera, and guess what, that power supply was the size of a medium-size refrigerator. He said it was exceptionally complex and very clean. So it's not that competent electrical engineers cannot design such power supplies for audio, they obviously don't, save for a few exceptions like the mega Pass monos with external power supplies.

-ack

 

[Shadowfax]

So if PCs do nothing, why are the naysayers not just using Black and Red ICs and Zip Cord for Speaker wires as they can't possibly make a difference either?
I noticed HH has exotic cables to his horns and AJ uses some boutique cables in the pics on his site. They must do something more than please themselves visually....or maybe not.

 

[a.wayne]

I'd be there in a flash were it not for the thousands of miles between us. The cable and other similar audiophile tweak demos I've seen at audio shows have been generally underwhelming to the extent they have a tinge of the "The Emperor's New Clothes" about them, with many attendees ruefully nodding in recognition of the "massive sound improvement" - yet keeping their hands firmly in their pockets.

Perhaps I should be more open-minded and ask a local dealer to do his best to convince me one way or the other.

Audio Shows ..!

Ever heard AG’s at an Audio Show? surely you’re not using that experience to shelf it all ..

 

[Mikado463]

Keeping their hands in their pockets so much the cable companies are all out of business now. Wait what? There's more cable company's than ever..... WTH

You need to quit

ahhh, no, you need to revisit 'economics 101' ! In this case it's called 'follow the money' :sigh:

 

[Mikado463]

So if PCs do nothing,

Brian, for the umpteenth time, myself and I gotta believe most others, are not implying that a PC does 'nothing'. Rather it needs to be properly engineered and assembled for its application and NEED NOT cost a small fortune.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

and NEED NOT cost a small fortune.

Since you are sure these small companies are overcharging you, and in your previous post you talk about your understanding of economics 101, please share with us the small cable company of your choice, their:

NET PROFIT from their operations that shows they could afford to charge less and still have the ability to cover general business admin, R&D, rent, paying for shows and marketing, inventory, shipping, taxes, healthcare and insurance AND be able to pay for the upcoming year.

Please, since you are so convinced their prices are wrong and too high, show us how they can successfully run the business charging less. Your feelings don't count - just the hard factual numbers please.

Share with us what their actual salaries are as well to show they are "raking it in" while "sticking it to us audio peeps" as you are implying.

Only factual numbers please otherwise admit you have no clue that they can charge less - and still survive as you stated. I'm also curios how many small businesses you've started from scratch, run and been responsible for making the payroll for employees where you are able to intelligently talk about this vs your feelings of what can and can't happen.

It's always fun to watch people with zero real world experience sit back and lecture what other companies should be charging.

I'm sure Mike could add to this with people blaming him for the cost of the gear he sells and thinking he "rakes it in" while they have ZERO clue about reality of business because clear you your post and belief takes aim at Mike as well.

 

[Shadowfax]

Brian, for the umpteenth time, myself and I gotta believe most others, are not implying that a PC does 'nothing'. Rather it needs to be properly engineered and assembled for its application and NEED NOT cost a small fortune.

We must be reading completely different threads then. HH seems to say otherwise above.

 

[Hear Here]

So if PCs do nothing, why are the naysayers not just using Black and Red ICs and Zip Cord for Speaker wires as they can't possibly make a difference either?
I noticed HH has exotic cables to his horns and AJ uses some boutique cables in the pics on his site. They must do something more than please themselves visually....or maybe not.

The difference between power cables (please let's not call them PCs as this can be Personal Computers or Power Conditioners or other PC things!) and interconnects and speakers cables is that the latter carry the signal and this needs very careful handling and nothing must be added or taken away from the pure signal. Power cords simply deliver a voltage to the power supply - nothing to do with the precious signal.

Regarding your second point, do you consider Duelund speaker cables as "boutique"? I consider them as perfectly adequate for the job and nothing more exotic is needed. I also have Cabledyne solid silver ones too but don't use them as the Duelund are just as good and much easier to keep out of sight.

 

[Shadowfax]

(please let's not call them PCs as this can be Personal Computers or Power Conditioners or other PC things!) .

I am pretty sure that "almost" everyone reading thru this thread is smart enough not to be confused and think I was talking about a personal computer.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

AJ uses some boutique cables in the pics on his site. They must do something more than please themselves visually....or maybe not.

I'm a closet cableist. That or unlike an audiophile, I actually understand the implications of the science evidence articles I link.

cheers

 

[Mikado463]

Since you are sure these small companies are overcharging you, and in your previous post you talk about your understanding of economics 101, please share with us the small cable company of your choice, their:

NET PROFIT from their operations that shows they could afford to charge less and still have the ability to cover general business admin, R&D, rent, paying for shows and marketing, inventory, shipping, taxes, healthcare and insurance AND be able to pay for the upcoming year.

Please, since you are so convinced their prices are wrong and too high, show us how they can successfully run the business charging less. Your feelings don't count - just the hard factual numbers please.

Share with us what their actual salaries are as well to show they are "raking it in" while "sticking it to us audio peeps" as you are implying.

Only factual numbers please otherwise admit you have no clue that they can charge less - and still survive as you stated. I'm also curios how many small businesses you've started from scratch, run and been responsible for making the payroll for employees where you are able to intelligently talk about this vs your feelings of what can and can't happen.

It's always fun to watch people with zero real world experience sit back and lecture what other companies should be charging.

I'm sure Mike could add to this with people blaming him for the cost of the gear he sells and thinking he "rakes it in" while they have ZERO clue about reality of business because clear you your post and belief takes aim at Mike as well.

Mikey, where did I say they are over charging me ??? YOU have a tough time understanding certain posts, for I responded to Peabody's statement of the proliferation of the number of wire companies now on the scene. Did you understand the context of my response ? Apparently not.......

For the record, my PC's are sourced from MagicPower I've dealt with Frank for a long time.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Mikey, where did I say they are over charging me ??? YOU have a tough time understanding certain posts, for I responded to Peabody's statement of the proliferation of the number of wire companies now on the scene. Did you understand the context of my response ? Apparently not.......

For the record, my PC's are sourced from MagicPower I've dealt with Frank for a long time.

Hi Davey - I quoted you in my post. Thanks for admitting you can't back up your statement.

 

[still-one]

Oh dear, oh dear.
not again!

It's a series circuit from that big power company transformer down the street to your amplifier.
Replacing 1 percent of it won't change anything.

If you hear a different, there was some overlooked uncontrolled variable in your test.

That power cord is t not the end, it is the first thing your amplifier sees.

 

[Shadowfax]

Mikey, where did I say they are over charging me ??? YOU have a tough time understanding certain posts, for I responded to Peabody's statement of the proliferation of the number of wire companies now on the scene. Did you understand the context of my response ? Apparently not.......

For the record, my PC's are sourced from MagicPower I've dealt with Frank for a long time.

Wow, you paid close to $100 per cable when you could have just used $10 Belden 19364 and a few Home Depot connectors. You seem to have let yourself get ripped off

 

[Mikado463]

Hi Davey - I quoted you in my post.

where ??? the only quotes (") I see are yours ?? As for your quotes, you followed it with your belief in something I was implying ??

Thanks for admitting you can't back up your statement.

Now I haven't admitted that, but you have surely shown and demonstrated your lack of comprehension ......

 

[Hear Here]

So if PCs do nothing, why are the naysayers not just using Black and Red ICs and Zip Cord for Speaker wires as they can't possibly make a difference either?
I noticed HH has exotic cables to his horns and AJ uses some boutique cables in the pics on his site. They must do something more than please themselves visually....or maybe not.

Has anyone here claimed that power cables do nothing? Certainly I haven't and as previously stated have upgraded from standard cheap cables to ones made from first-class Belden screened cable. I've not heard any properly argued case for further expenditure on these simple and non-signal-carrying cables that are there to supply the power supply with whatever voltage it needs.

Power cables (let’s not call them PCs as this could be personal computers, power conditioners, or anything else PC!) differ from interconnects and speaker cables because the latter handle the precious signal that must be preserved with nothing added or taken away from start to finish. Power cables simply deliver the voltage needed by the power supply within the amp.

Regarding your second point, do you consider Duelund speaker cables as “boutique”? I have more exotic solid silver Cabledyne ones but they sound no better and Duelund can be much more easily kept out of sight.

PS - I hope you're enjoying this playful banter as much as me. None of us here is likely to change our views, but the Shunyatas of this world stay in business to keep those with deep pockets happy and satisfied that they can't spend any more than they have. Don't forget the $1000 fuses though!

PPS - Ooops! - this post almost duplicates my one at #69 - not intended. I lost track of my initial scribblings so started again, only to find my PC seems to have posted the first version.

 

[Mikado463]

Wow, you paid close to $100 per cable when you could have just used $10 Belden 19364 and a few Home Depot connectors. You seem to have let yourself get ripped off

LOL Brian, you implied I got ripped off and you're using Synergistic cables, now that's a LMAO !! You, like Mikey are taking things out of context, I STATED 'reasonably priced' ! but I get your sarcasm

One more thing, all my current power cords were purchased before the pandemic......

 

[Shadowfax]

LOL Brian, you implied I got ripped off and you're using Synergistic cables, now that's a LMAO !! You, like Mikey are taking things out of context, I STATED 'reasonably priced' ! but I get your sarcasm

One more thing, all my current power cords were purchased before the pandemic......

OK now for some news, I paid literally a few dollars for the SRs and currently not using them because my old Tara Labs Prism sound better. I got them in a bulk deal where I purchased $15K worth of gear for $300. Now who is laughing?

And yeah, I was just messin with you, hence the smiley face.

 

[Mr Peabody]

LOL, thanks for making my point. HH was claiming people were listening but NOT buying

ahhh, no, you need to revisit 'economics 101' ! In this case it's called 'follow the money' :sigh: