The Battle Between Truth and Magic

jmusica

jmusica

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
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655
Location
Tampa
I have a harder decision to make than I thought I would. Ok, well maybe not entirely. When I left Suncoast Audio last week with a Boulder 866 to audition, thanks to an afternoon listening session with Mike and Mike, I think subconsciously at least, I knew it might not be too easy.

I've given the Boulder a good listen now, and it's without a doubt a spectacular amp. I already knew the Enleum that's been in my system for a while now is also an immensely satisfying piece of gear.

Very high level

The Enleum has been described as a magical piece of equipment. It excels at fleshed-out 3-dimensional vocals and soundstage width and has a quality I can best describe as effervescent. It's an intoxicating, musical amp that draws you in without realizing it and you end up listening longer than you planned. I've extended my listening sessions so long a few times on this amp that I've fallen asleep on the couch.

The Boulder has detail, realism, and balance across the frequency range that doesn't emphasize anything at the expense of something else. It has balls, and pace and attack; it made me start digging into my collection to listen to things I haven't for a while, particularly older rock like Rush and Floyd, which sound incredible on the 866. It's a more forward-sounding amp that excels at taut, fleshed-out, low bass, without over-emphasizing it, and pulls layers and details out of recordings that are more subtle on the Enleum.

The words that come to mind to describe the Enleum: beautiful, mesmerizing.
The 866: exhilarating, truthful.

Both of these amps make me want to not stop listening. Neither of these would be a choice I'd be unhappy with.

This is a hard decision. I need more time. The battle rages on.
 
comparing a 25 wpc amp against one that has 200 is hardly a level playing field. I owned Nagai-san's Bakoon gear while I had Avantgardes. plenty for drive for those speakers but the Scansonic is under 90 db. Is your room really small and/or do you listen in the nearfield?
 
I wish I had the dilemmas of rich people as between Enleum and Boulder. I don't but it's amusing to hear about them.

IMHO, the likes of Enleum depend on tuning distortion to what their designers and, as they hope, their listeners will like. The distortion is mostly a combination of 2nd and 3rd order harmonics with lessor contributions, usually, of other desirable characteristics. The problem is finding that particular combination. Listeners tastes are varied and may vary over time, so they can be caught on a cycle of "upgrades" that is inherently endless.

Boulder, OTOH, subscribes to a lowest possible distortion philosophy. The problem here is low distortion doesn't hide the weakness of up or downstream components or recordings -- recordings with great SQ sound great but crappy recordings sound crappy. (The reality is that most recording are mediocre.)

Boulder, of course, builds component of exquisite build quality but at astronomical price. If all you really care about is Boulder-like sound quality, we are fortunate today to have the likes of class D amps such as Hypex or Purifi, and for that matter, a few AB amps such as Benchmark. These can be be had for laughably low price compared to Boulder so relatively poor people (like me) can be glad.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Whew, I'm just glad you made it 5 months before itching to try a new __ amp!
Click to expand...

ROFL. I blame Audioshark. I was originally going to try out the MSB DAC but missed the price increase so just shifted gears. If a shark's not moving forward, he's sinking.
 
Feanor said:
...
Boulder, of course, builds component of exquisite build quality but at astronomical price...
Click to expand...

I would characterize Boulder as "high" price rather than "astronomical"; there are easily a dozen amp manufacturers with products in the same general price range. OTOH, there are at least half a dozen (probably more) with amps twice the price (or more) of Boulder's top of the line.
 
rbbert said:
I would characterize Boulder as "high" price rather than "astronomical"; there are easily a dozen amp manufacturers with products in the same general price range. OTOH, there are at least half a dozen (probably more) with amps twice the price (or more) of Boulder's top of the line.
Click to expand...

So sure, no doubt there are much more expensive amps. But at US12K the 866 seems pretty astronomical to yours truly.

But again, perhaps the comparison is really to very competent, much cheaper audio products.
 
rbbert said:
I would characterize Boulder as "high" price rather than "astronomical"; there are easily a dozen amp manufacturers with products in the same general price range. OTOH, there are at least half a dozen (probably more) with amps twice the price (or more) of Boulder's top of the line.
Click to expand...

I’d agree with this. The tone of the entire thread is as if it is Humboldt vs. Momentum Integrated.
 
Feanor said:
So sure, no doubt there are much more expensive amps. But at US12K the 866 seems pretty astronomical to yours truly.

But again, perhaps the comparison is really to very competent, much cheaper audio products.
Click to expand...

Try to find a 2-3 y.o used car for that price; even a 5 y.o. used car in good shape that was of good quality to begin with. Likewise, late model good condition audio components tend to be much less expensive than brand new.

This has been my point of reference for the past 50+ years (and indeed that of many others, including many reviewers), at least for amps and speakers. YMMV of course.
 
I debated whether to comment in the original comparison on the price difference between them and decided not to. Yes the 866 is more or less double the price of the Enleum, but my frame of reference was "amps I could consider owning" (financially and otherwise).

If I'd started out saying, "lets compare some amps in the 5k-15k range" maybe things would have been less contentious as far as that goes. Per some posters to this thread that's a ton of $, but based on the gear that regularly gets discussed here I'd estimate that it's on the lower range of what many consider "hi end".

Perhaps another way to look at it, is it's to Enleum's credit that it can trade punches with the Boulder.

End of the day, these happen to be the two amps I'm comparing at this time. I've had other more expensive amps and I've had cheaper amps, and I'd say these are easily 2 of the best I've personally had hands on.

Another thing I didn't mention was aesthetics. That's so subjective I see no point in raising it. One of these amps, I initially hated the look of, and now I'm ok with it. My wife hates and ridicules it. Doesn't affect the sound or value, and is just one of many inputs to a keep/don't keep decision. (My wife, that is, not the amps).
 
rbbert said:
Try to find a 2-3 y.o used car for that price; even a 5 y.o. used car in good shape that was of good quality to begin with. Likewise, late model good condition audio components tend to be much less expensive than brand new.

This has been my point of reference for the past 50+ years (and indeed that of many others, including many reviewers), at least for amps and speakers. YMMV of course.
Click to expand...

I intended no offence by my remarks.

If the price of a used car is your price reference point for an amplifier, well, that's fine but it certainly isn't mine. More relevant to me is to is to get excellent sound for the least possible outlay. I too have been interested in hi-fi for over 50 years but, of necessity, high value has always been my paramount consideration.
 
kzhtoo said:
I’d agree with this. The tone of the entire thread is as if it is Humboldt vs. Momentum Integrated.
Click to expand...

You're right -- to an extent. Boulder and Enleum are "reasonable" in comparison with Humboldt or Momentum.

But then while Humboldt and Momentum may sound great so do options costing 1/10th their price. Their actual raison d'être is as prestige bling for billionaires.
 
Feanor said:
I intended no offence by my remarks.

If the price of a used car is your price reference point for an amplifier, well, that's fine but it certainly isn't mine. More relevant to me is to is to get excellent sound for the least possible outlay. I too have been interested in hi-fi for over 50 years but, of necessity, high value has always been my paramount consideration.
Click to expand...

“High value” clearly means different things to different people… Buying a certified pre-owned auto and driving it for 10-15 years allows one to move beyond a good soundbar + sub (which is where most people will go for “high value”). 😉
 
jmusica said:
I have a harder decision to make than I thought I would. Ok, well maybe not entirely. When I left Suncoast Audio last week with a Boulder 866 to audition, thanks to an afternoon listening session with Mike and Mike, I think subconsciously at least, I knew it might not be too easy.

I've given the Boulder a good listen now, and it's without a doubt a spectacular amp. I already knew the Enleum that's been in my system for a while now is also an immensely satisfying piece of gear.

Very high level

The Enleum has been described as a magical piece of equipment. It excels at fleshed-out 3-dimensional vocals and soundstage width and has a quality I can best describe as effervescent. It's an intoxicating, musical amp that draws you in without realizing it and you end up listening longer than you planned. I've extended my listening sessions so long a few times on this amp that I've fallen asleep on the couch.

The Boulder has detail, realism, and balance across the frequency range that doesn't emphasize anything at the expense of something else. It has balls, and pace and attack; it made me start digging into my collection to listen to things I haven't for a while, particularly older rock like Rush and Floyd, which sound incredible on the 866. It's a more forward-sounding amp that excels at taut, fleshed-out, low bass, without over-emphasizing it, and pulls layers and details out of recordings that are more subtle on the Enleum.

The words that come to mind to describe the Enleum: beautiful, mesmerizing.
The 866: exhilarating, truthful.

Both of these amps make me want to not stop listening. Neither of these would be a choice I'd be unhappy with.

This is a hard decision. I need more time. The battle rages on.
Click to expand...

Paraphrasing Jack Nicholson... Can you handle the truth? :D
 
Feanor said:
You're right -- to an extent. Boulder and Enleum are "reasonable" in comparison with Humboldt or Momentum.

But then while Humboldt and Momentum may sound great so do options costing 1/10th their price. Their actual raison d'être is as prestige bling for billionaires.
Click to expand...

You misunderstood me. I do not mean the price difference. While Enleum and 866 may sound good, they are not perceived as the top players in the integrated space. Especially Enleum, it may even have a difficult time staying in the middle of the pack. I’d probably prefer most Pass and Luxman integrated. But the tone of the thread romanticized it to be something it is not.
 
jmusica said:
I have a harder decision to make than I thought I would. Ok, well maybe not entirely. When I left Suncoast Audio last week with a Boulder 866 to audition, thanks to an afternoon listening session with Mike and Mike, I think subconsciously at least, I knew it might not be too easy.

I've given the Boulder a good listen now, and it's without a doubt a spectacular amp. I already knew the Enleum that's been in my system for a while now is also an immensely satisfying piece of gear.


Very high level

The Enleum has been described as a magical piece of equipment. It excels at fleshed-out 3-dimensional vocals and soundstage width and has a quality I can best describe as effervescent. It's an intoxicating, musical amp that draws you in without realizing it and you end up listening longer than you planned. I've extended my listening sessions so long a few times on this amp that I've fallen asleep on the couch.

The Boulder has detail, realism, and balance across the frequency range that doesn't emphasize anything at the expense of something else. It has balls, and pace and attack; it made me start digging into my collection to listen to things I haven't for a while, particularly older rock like Rush and Floyd, which sound incredible on the 866. It's a more forward-sounding amp that excels at taut, fleshed-out, low bass, without over-emphasizing it, and pulls layers and details out of recordings that are more subtle on the Enleum.

The words that come to mind to describe the Enleum: beautiful, mesmerizing.
The 866: exhilarating, truthful.

Both of these amps make me want to not stop listening. Neither of these would be a choice I'd be unhappy with.

This is a hard decision. I need more time. The battle rages on.
Click to expand...

Based on your statement that you can enjoy either one and either one would make you happy, then, why change amps and spend the money on the Boulder.
I would think it should clearly sound better to you then the Enleum to bother.

Maybe you need to go back and listen to other amps and find one that clearly sounds better. If not it seems to be a lateral move with tradeoffs. Nothing wrong with that, if you are only looking for a different amp regardless.
 
Go for the boulder. The fun part is the journey….when you finally want to land, you’ll know. I have.
 
Feanor said:
You're right -- to an extent. Boulder and Enleum are "reasonable" in comparison with Humboldt or Momentum.

But then while Humboldt and Momentum may sound great so do options costing 1/10th their price. Their actual raison d'être is as prestige bling for billionaires.
Click to expand...

I've got Enleum AMP-23R, Boulder 866 and Audionet Humboldt here amongst many others. I've also got several Class D based amps for demonstration - from Primare and Lindemann all the way up to Mola Mola and AGD.

They're all special in their own right, trying to meet different needs and buyers, but there's certainly a staircase to heaven where none of these three manufacturers first mentioned makes anything that I would call "bling". You do pay for build and parts quality as well as design besides performance though - naturally. As within any other product category.

/ Marcus, Perfect sense | Audio Matters
 
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