Switched to Class D or get left behind?

[Hear Here]

Exactly, because quality power supplies and other factors to make a quality amp costs. What's happening some companies are putting out these flea weight Class D that measure low distortion beyond measurement with inflated power ratings but can't stand up under real world use because they don't have the power supply and current delivery. On the other hand I'd hope that could be achieved under $25k, LOL

The truth is Class D can sound like total crap and still measure well. That's the snake oil of Class D. What I mean by "crap" power rails sag, highs become harsh, sound compresses, due to not being able to produce the power and current needed, this is a fact. Some people like Here Here who has ultra high efficient speakers may never have taxed his Class D so may have a skewed opinion. Class D may work for some people who can keep them in a good working range or not able to hear when they fall apart. This doesn't have to mean human hearing it could also be inferior speakers.

But your comments about inadaquate power supplies, etc apply equally to Class A or AB amps. In fact more so as Class D requires so much less of the voltages required compared with AB and even more so, Class A ones. But I sgree there's lots of crap Class D around o cater for the mid-fi guys who are on a tight budget and are seduced by these garage-built cheap Class D amps.

You're right - my Class D amps are exceptionally good ones (Purifi Eigentakt built under licence, etc and Atma-Sphere monos) and they are just ticking over when powering my ultra-sensitive speakers. The Purifi one was equally happy driving Quad or Martin Logan electrostatics, despite their thirst for power.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

You're right - my Class D amps are exceptionally good ones (Purifi Eigentakt built under licence, etc and Atma-Sphere monos) and they are just ticking over when powering my ultra-sensitive speakers. The Purifi one was equally happy driving Quad or Martin Logan electrostatics, despite their thirst for power.

Hey Here Here - How do you like having very powerful amps with very high efficiency speaker? Have you ever tried very low power like 45 or 2A3's? (300B's sound broken and boring compared to 45's or 2A3's).

My personal experience is I prefer the opposite - low power amps with horn speakers.

 

[Mr Peabody]

But your comments about inadaquate power supplies, etc apply equally to Class A or AB amps. In fact more so as Class D requires so much less of the voltages required compared with AB and even more so, Class A ones. But I sgree there's lots of crap Class D around o cater for the mid-fi guys who are on a tight budget and are seduced by these garage-built cheap Class D amps.

You're right - my Class D amps are exceptionally good ones (Purifi Eigentakt built under licence, etc and Atma-Sphere monos) and they are just ticking over when powering my ultra-sensitive speakers. The Purifi one was equally happy driving Quad or Martin Logan electrostatics, despite their thirst for power.

Interesting as your Class D story in which you've repeated hundreds of time here in print you stated you went through all these brands of amps to drive your AG's then landed on your hold grail the M33. So... when did you use your M33 to drive all those speakers you mentioned?

 

[2FarGone]

Hey Here Here - How do you like having very powerful amps with very high efficiency speaker? Have you ever tried very low power like 45 or 2A3's? (300B's sound broken and boring compared to 45's or 2A3's).

My personal experience is I prefer the opposite - low power amps with horn speakers.

Umm…Michael, I normally agree with you most of the time, but you’re painting with a pretty broad brush here. I tried custom 2A3 monos on my Odeon La Bohemes, and the Antares smoked them, whether with the KR842 VHD tubes, or more recently the KR300B tubes.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Umm…Michael, I normally agree with you most of the time, but you’re painting with a pretty broad brush here. I tried custom 2A3 monos on my Odeon La Bohemes, and the Antares smoked them, whether with the KR842 VHD tubes, or more recently the KR300B tubes.

I agree, that's why I qualified it with my personal experience.

It's certainly personal for sure and dependent on the amps AND the tubes.

My personal experience with with the right tubes on a very low power amp is that there is no - and I do mean none of the dozens of amps I've heard that can compare with the emotional ebb and flow and delicate insight into music on very high efficiency speakers like 45's and 2A3's can.

10000% totally subjective personal opinion. With normal speakers it's a different story for sure. Not saying I'm right and it's fact. Just my preference.

 

[2FarGone]

I agree, that's why I qualified it with my personal experience.

It's certainly personal for sure and dependent on the amps AND the tubes.

My personal experience with with the right tubes on a very low power amp is that there is no - and I do mean none of the dozens of amps I've heard that can compare with the emotional ebb and flow and delicate insight into music on very high efficiency speakers like 45's and 2A3's can.

10000% totally subjective personal opinion. With normal speakers it's a different story for sure. Not saying I'm right and it's fact. Just my preference.

That was probably the difference. The Odeons are efficient - I think Alex said 96 dB efficient - but I think the 2A3s left them under powered in this acoustic environment.

 

[Hear Here]

Hey Here Here - How do you like having very powerful amps with very high efficiency speaker? Have you ever tried very low power like 45 or 2A3's? (300B's sound broken and boring compared to 45's or 2A3's).

My personal experience is I prefer the opposite - low power amps with horn speakers.

I've never used 45 or 2A3-based amps but I had one that used the wonderful PX-25 from Art Audio. Sublime for lots of music but a little gasping with Mahler at high volumes!

I've only had one 300B (from Audio Note but not their top-of-the-range) and I was decidedly disappointed - not a patch on the PX-25.

I have no problem using a powerful amp with my high sensitivity speakers. A good bit of headroom is surely a good thing. When using the 200 watt Purifi or the Atma-Sphere 100 watt monos, I set the preamp's maximum output at -20 dB - just in case I sit on the remote control, or someone puts a book on it!

In my multi-amp home tests to decide on a great ss amp to replace my SETs, there were ones as low as 12 watts (Valvet) and Bakoon (25 watts). Both powerful enough, but they were discounted for other reasons

 

[Hear Here]

Interesting as your Class D story in which you've repeated hundreds of time here in print you stated you went through all these brands of amps to drive your AG's then landed on your hold grail the M33. So... when did you use your M33 to drive all those speakers you mentioned?

The home tests were all done when I was using Avantgarde speakers, so always like-for-like comparisons, when judging sound quality. Doubtless others amps in my tests may have been better suited to other speakers, but I have no intention of moving from ASGs.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I've only had one 300B (from Audio Note but not their top-of-the-range) and I was decidedly disappointed - not a patch on the PX-25.

I agree in the 300B.

I currently have or have had 9 different 300B amps here.

Once you hear a good lower power tube (or even the PX-25), in my experience, EVERY 300B amp will disappoint.

I think it's the most over-rated tube in tube history.

 

[JCS123]

"..people who dare to decide if food tastes good by using their own taste buds."

You've nailed it. A lot of people just like bad food. I always cringe when I do a search of Google Maps for Mexican food and Taco Bell is among the highest-rated Mexican "restaurants". Only someone whose taste buds work (he/she is able to repeatedly identify and accurately explain differences between samples), has tasted food at many levels and at many restaurants at each of those levels even begins to qualify as a food reviewer.

But who cares about all of this, anyway? Not the guy who has never tasted the best food and couldn't afford it even if he wanted to taste it. He might think his fast food is good enough. He might be jealous of people who can afford better food. Or he might go on food forums and attack everyone eating better food, calling them chumps, snobs, unable to taste, etc.

Maybe we need to start a new magazine and website forum called "The Absolute Taste", and watch the golden-tongues battle it out with the unsophisticated hayseeds.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Maybe we need to start a new magazine and website forum called "The Absolute Taste", and watch the golden-tongues battle it out with the unsophisticated hayseeds.

We could start a forum called "What's Best Food Forum" and have forum owners who are paid to delete posts and ban people who don't like the food of the restaurants we have secret back-room deals with, while pretending we are neutral and honest food 'journalists'.

Then we could send out emails to all the restaurants at food shows asking them to pay us for us to talk about them.