Streaming vs dedicated CD player

[Randy Myers]

you are 100% right that it's a challenge for server makers to overcome. but......there are servers and dacs now (at higher price points for sure) that have met and overcome the processing power and heat issues that were real processing limitations until very recently. maybe investigate the Taiko Extreme server. it is a 99 pound music server. ninety nine pounds for a computer!!!

SGM EXTREME – Taiko Audio

i've owned one for a year. these are heavily back ordered taking a few months to get.

my point being that if you want digital gear that is not stressed by getting pushed hard they exist. but it will cost you.

Totally agree. These machines are certainly available... for a price . I hear the SGM Extreme is excellent, but for how much . Over $38,000... OUCH...

My Falcon Northwest configured as a dedicated server running Roon and HQPlayer does a wonder job in my view .

 

[Randy Myers]

Are you running Windows?

Yes, on a 8 core i7 running off M.2 drives and gold standard power supply. As slimline configuration as can be done. The machine runs Roon and HQPlayer.... no other applications (I know Windows runs several but the over head is really non-existent in this machine).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Totally agree. These machines are certainly available... for a price . I hear the SGM Extreme is excellent, but for how much . Over $38,000... OUCH...

My Falcon Northwest configured as a dedicated server running Roon and HQPlayer does a wonder job in my view .

more like about $28,000 USD, but i completely agree with you that that is an ouch! number. there are other solutions that succeed to varying degrees at solving the same issues. so users have lots of solid alternatives at various price points.

the Extreme is for the crazy serious person who might have chased computer digital musical bliss for years, maybe built a new server himself every year for 6-7 years, and then observes all the investments he has made might total as much or more than an Extreme, but still are held back by certain barriers that the Extreme has solved. you look at drawers or shelves full of computer bits and pieces and realize it can end now.

or; maybe someone is considering a vinyl investment, but likes the fact that musical access is unlimited literally with digital streaming. the budget is re-purposed to the server.

so the Extreme does answer questions for some.....and be a reasonably rational decision.

but most either, don't choose to, or cannot choose to, buy one. like the tip top of any product category.

 

[Mike]

The reasons you need such power is because Roon is an absolute pig for resources. Like I’ve said, I love the interface, but sonically and it’s resourcing requirements, are not ideal. I won’t be surprised if people start to move away from Roon. I will be watching the SGM guys closely. They probably already know what I’m saying. I would be curious if they have tried any other software, like Audirvana and how it compared to Roon SONICALLY.

 

[Randy Myers]

more like about $28,000 USD, but i completely agree with you that that is an ouch! number..

I just saw the price in pound and did a conversion... sounds like a wonderful machine, but dam...

I truly wonder how much of a difference this would actually be from my Falcon running Roon and HQPlayer. I believe the rest of my system would be the limiting factor making it difficult to actually see any difference with this awesome server.

 

[Randy Myers]

The reasons you need such power is because Roon is an absolute pig for resources. Like I’ve said, I love the interface, but sonically and it’s resourcing requirements, are not ideal. I won’t be surprised if people start to move away from Roon. I will be watching the SGM guys closely. They probably already know what I’m saying. I would be curious if they have tried any other software, like Audirvana and how it compared to Roon SONICALLY.

Hehe, Roon is a lite weight in resource usage verses HQPlayer . HQPlayer is the software that drives the resource requirements over the top .

With just Roon running my CPU use is in the single digits but HQPlayer pushes all 8 CPU's in the 30-40% range, if I am recalling correct (I compared these a few months ago).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The reasons you need such power is because Roon is an absolute pig for resources. Like I’ve said, I love the interface, but sonically and it’s resourcing requirements, are not ideal. I won’t be surprised if people start to move away from Roon. I will be watching the SGM guys closely. They probably already know what I’m saying. I would be curious if they have tried any other software, like Audirvana and how it compared to Roon SONICALLY.

Emile of SGM has tried them all, and is actually creating his own Roon alternative for his servers narrowly focused on high performance music applications. a few months back he did briefly send out some beta versions, but then found a Roon work-around of some of those Roon issues and pulled it back for more work. but it's on it's way.

the question will be whether he will offer it to users of other servers. i suppose that depends on how hard it is to have it be open enough to work on other servers, and how much secret stuff might be involved.

until i hear it in my system hard to know how it will turn out. but Emile has conquered other barriers no one else thought he could. so my money is on him.

 

[Mike]

Emile of SGM has tried them all, and is actually creating his own Roon alternative for his servers narrowly focused on high performance music applications. a few months back he did briefly send out some beta versions, but then found a Roon work-around of some of those Roon issues and pulled it back for more work. but it's on it's way.

the question will be whether he will offer it to users of other servers. i suppose that depends on how hard it is to have it be open enough to work on other servers, and how much secret stuff might be involved.

until i hear it in my system hard to know how it will turn out. but Emile has conquered other barriers no one else thought he could. so my money is on him.

Mike, I’m not surprised Emile is building his own software as I’m certain he’s finding Roon is probably the bottleneck in his search for further sonic success. I wish him well and look forward to hearing how much better his software will sound.


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[Calvin]

more like about $28,000 USD, but i completely agree with you that that is an ouch! number. there are other solutions that succeed to varying degrees at solving the same issues. so users have lots of solid alternatives at various price points.

the Extreme is for the crazy serious person who might have chased computer digital musical bliss for years, maybe built a new server himself every year for 6-7 years, and then observes all the investments he has made might total as much or more than an Extreme, but still are held back by certain barriers that the Extreme has solved. you look at drawers or shelves full of computer bits and pieces and realize it can end now.

or; maybe someone is considering a vinyl investment, but likes the fact that musical access is unlimited literally with digital streaming. the budget is re-purposed to the server.

so the Extreme does answer questions for some.....and be a reasonably rational decision.

but most either, don't choose to, or cannot choose to, buy one. like the tip top of any product category.

Mike,

I see many configurations of the Extreme available. Which would you suggest for the MSB Select II? Also which cables would one need to connect it? I figure a power, usb, and ethernet, but ... ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[u-sound]

is the sgm a streamer as well or just storage?

 

[still-one]

Mike I have no idea where you get that Roon is a pig for resources. I have been running a SGC i5 without a hic-up for some time now.

Sure I tried Audivrana when I was looking for something to replace Sooloos. I have also A/B'd a Aurender unit vs Roon and found no SQ differences yet "I" felt the Aurender GUI was too complicated.

As far as a $28k Taiko unit I put that in the same box as Relentless amps and the XVX or MBL Extremes. No matter how good they sound my mind will not allow me to pull out the check book. I am glad those products are available for those who want the best.

 

[Mike]

Mike I have no idea where you get that Roon is a pig for resources. I have been running a SGC i5 without a hic-up for some time now.

Sure I tried Audivrana when I was looking for something to replace Sooloos. I have also A/B'd a Aurender unit vs Roon and found no SQ differences yet "I" felt the Aurender GUI was too complicated.

As far as a $28k Taiko unit I put that in the same box as Relentless amps and the XVX or MBL Extremes. No matter how good they sound my mind will not allow me to pull out the check book. I am glad those products are available for those who want the best.

It is. It’s memory and CPU demands are high and thus noisy. Compare to low powered alternatives and let me know. Roon is hands down the best UI, but sonically I have heard better. I do this all day long. [emoji6]

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[still-one]

The core usage on my unit seldom if ever hits 5%. There is an app to monitor it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike,

I see many configurations of the Extreme available. Which would you suggest for the MSB Select II? Also which cables would one need to connect it? I figure a power, usb, and ethernet, but ... ?

Thanks in advance.

hi Joe,

mostly the configurations have to do with how much PCIe memory (if any) you want, and choice of various interfaces both input and output, that are non standard. mine has USB as primary and maximum memory.

most users use USB at this time.

i only have one output connection myself that i use presently, the USB. although i have also used an MSB Renderer too. for input i have used a regular Ethernet connection, although now i'm using the SPF optical interface input. the ideal of these different interfaces is jumping around. the Extreme is completely flexible on which is the best, and Emile is super helpful to support any changes. and if there is any upgrades, these are done remotely by Emile or his crew in a very timely way. appointments are made for windows of time so remote pathways don't need to be kept permanently open. very real world stuff, and it works seamlessly.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

is the sgm a streamer as well or just storage?

both.

it's a steamer that uses a special PCIe internal interface for it's storage. this interface bypasses the normal processes hard drives or solid state drives typically use so it's faster and quieter. i've over-simplified this as i'm no techie. there is a 4808 post thread on What's Best Forum about the Extreme that will answer any and all questions you might have.

 

[Mike]

The core usage on my unit seldom if ever hits 5%. There is an app to monitor it.

But that CPU is inherently noisy. That noise gets into the audio signal. I wish it wasn’t so because the UI is so damn good, but we can hear it when we do comparisons.

Anyway, if it works for you, that’s awesome. But I would encourage you to try something like an Aurender just for fun. You might be surprised.


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[schmidtmike76]

The reasons you need such power is because Roon is an absolute pig for resources. Like I’ve said, I love the interface, but sonically and it’s resourcing requirements, are not ideal. I won’t be surprised if people start to move away from Roon. I will be watching the SGM guys closely. They probably already know what I’m saying. I would be curious if they have tried any other software, like Audirvana and how it compared to Roon SONICALLY.

Mike do you think a nucleus would sound better than my old iMac that runs Roon. Thanks, Mike

 

[Mike]

Mike do you think a nucleus would sound better than my old iMac that runs Roon. Thanks, Mike

We went from an old Mac mini to the Nucleus in the store. Didn’t hear any change to be honest. Thought sound performance would improve, but it didn’t.

There’s an old post - 18 months ago maybe, where we compared Nucleus vs Innuos Vs Aurender. Aurender won. We had six guys listening.


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[rbbert]

How's that Aurender app?

 

[Mike]

How's that Aurender app?

The current iteration is very good. What’s coming, with the features coming (sorry, I can’t say!!), is going to be fantastic!

And let’s not forget, the Lumin app is also very functional and sounds great too.

Nothing touches Roon for look and feel and UI. Nothing. But in the store, we are constantly between Roon, Lumin and Aurender apps. I love the ecosystem of Aurender for stability and most importantly, sound.


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