Speakers for tubes

KeithR said:
anyways, I really don't want to debate the efficiency game. i was just making an observation that most of the en vogue speakers are slanted towards SS and if there were any tube friendly speakers for folks. we were able to come up with several:

Focal
Sonus Faber
Tannoy
Devore Fidelity
Nola
Evolution Acoustics
Wilson (certain models)
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Agreed.

Good list. Any here you plan on auditioning?

Keith - what's your thoughts on the tube friendliness of Harbeth?


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Get yourself a pair of ProAc d28's, give them a good 50 wpc tube amp and watch them disappear.
 
Mike said:
Agreed.

Good list. Any here you plan on auditioning?

Keith - what's your thoughts on the tube friendliness of Harbeth?


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Mike
My Harbeth SHL5's sound wonderful with my McIntosh MC275VI.
 
Toobs said:
Mike
My Harbeth SHL5's sound wonderful with my McIntosh MC275VI.
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I was thinking of that very pairing. There were two speakers I wanted to desperately bring home from this weekend: SF Liliums and Harbeth Super HL5's.


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Mike- Barring Alan Shaws opinions on amps, yes, Harbeths are tube friendly :) Low efficiency, but high impedance. As far as speaker auditions, I'm taking a break for now until Newport. After my demos so far, I'm inclined to keep my Zus. I do anticipate a Devore Gibbon X demo at some point, but I have to admit I'm concerned about the voiced cabinet.

Toobs- If i recall, Stuart Tyler used to design his speakers with ARC- but I haven't heard anything out of that company in a long time. One of my fondest memories was ProAc 2.5 w/ JRDG Concentra II integrated at a NYC boutique.
 
Mike -- While I was not at AXPONA, I did hear quite a few good auditions with various brands of speakers speakers at the latest RMAF. The one that I just cannot seem to get over is the Tidal room with Tidal Piano Ceras being driven by Bricasti monoblock amps and M1 dac. Maybe it was the music selection, but there was magic in that room!
Anshul[

QUOTE=Mike;124801]Alexandre - a friend of mine who's quite a speaker designer felt the Tidal's were the best speaker at Axpona and the new Tidal's to be announced at Munich will have a diamond tweeter and mid.




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Mike said:
I was thinking of that very pairing. There were two speakers I wanted to desperately bring home from this weekend: SF Liliums and Harbeth Super HL5's.


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Mike those Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers in Vinny Rossi's room were just beautiful in the near field.
 
With tube amps you also need to consider the flatness of the speaker impedance as their FR follows it due to their high output impedance. Based on this I'd say the Dali Epicon 8 are very good for tubes.

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apdoc2004 said:
Mike -- While I was not at AXPONA, I did hear quite a few good auditions with various brands of speakers speakers at the latest RMAF. The one that I just cannot seem to get over is the Tidal room with Tidal Piano Ceras being driven by Bricasti monoblock amps and M1 dac. Maybe it was the music selection, but there was magic in that room!
Anshul
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At AXPONA in the Bricasti room Brian Zolner was again running his M1 DAC balanced directly driving his M28 amps with Tidal speakers, and several show reports rank it as one of the best sounding displays at the show.
 
KeithR said:
Mike- Barring Alan Shaws opinions on amps, yes, Harbeths are tube friendly :) Low efficiency, but high impedance. As far as speaker auditions, I'm taking a break for now until Newport. After my demos so far, I'm inclined to keep my Zus. I do anticipate a Devore Gibbon X demo at some point, but I have to admit I'm concerned about the voiced cabinet.

Toobs- If i recall, Stuart Tyler used to design his speakers with ARC- but I haven't heard anything out of that company in a long time. One of my fondest memories was ProAc 2.5 w/ JRDG Concentra II integrated at a NYC boutique.
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Keith
I had a pair of the ProAc Response 2.5's driven by an Audio Research VT100 tube amp for nearly 15 years. It was a match made in heaven. Sadly both the amp and speakers are gone but I have the fondest memories.
 
No such intent Keith , apologies if that was the perception. Only proves that perceptions , preferences and prejudices remain intensely subjective and ultimately irrefutable in this game , for all of us.

Shodhan
 
The Audio Physic line of speakers especially the passive woofer designed models, Virgo 3 and the Caldera 3 speakers.
 
a.wayne said:
.

Hello Mike ,

I think you meant to say sensitivity not efficiency, you can a high sensitivity speaker that is less efficient than another with the same sensitivity.
Low powered tubes are best with high sensitivity , high efficiency speakers....

.
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What is the difference between Sensitivity and efficiency?

~thanks.
 
Honeybee said:
What is the difference between Sensitivity and efficiency?

~thanks.
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Sensitivity is 2.83 volts/1 meter, Efficiency is 1 watt/1 meter.

Let's take the example of a speaker that is 90 db 1 watt 1 meter and 8 ohms...

Into 8 ohms the two are the same, as 2.83 volts into 8 ohms is 1 watt. However, 2.83 volts into 4 ohms is 2 watts, so you can see that in the latter case if we are talking about a 4 ohm speaker there is a 3 db loss in efficiency, IOW the speaker has 90 db sensitivity but 87 db efficiency.

Further, 2.83 volts into 16 ohms is 1/2 watt. In this case the speaker would be 3 db less sensitive, even though the 90 db figure might still apply (1 watt/1 meter).

The two measurements exist because there are two ways of doing things in audio, the Power Paradigm and the Voltage Paradigm. The former is what was around up into the 1950s, when a gradual shift began toward the voltage rules, which were firmly in place by the early 1970s, although Sensitivity did not really show up as a spec until sometime in the 1980s. more: [url}http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php[/url]

Tubes of course don't double power as you cut the load impedance in half. In order for them to act as a Voltage source, the amp has to employ a fair amount of negative feedback. The latter has taken a fair amount of criticism in the last 25 years (IMO/IME this seems to have a lot to do with poor application of negative feedback in many designs). SETs are the best-known examples of zero feedback amplifier designs (although by no means the only examples). When a tube amplifier is zero feedback, it will be found to be a power source rather than a voltage source. This has given rise to a lot of speakers that are designed around the Power Paradigm- IOW speakers that work fine with SETs and the like.
 
Mike said:
Living Voice OBX-RW

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There's a lot about the specs for those that just don't jive. It's just not possible with any 6.5" drivers in existence to get their claimed sensitivity, bass extension, and a 12 ohm load. Proprietary woofer or not, it simply isn't possible. One of those 3 things would have to give. And since the Scan 9900 tweeter they're using max's out at 91db sensitivity (6 ohm load btw), I would suspect that it's their sensitivity spec which is off.
 
They don't claim a 12 ohm load, their website says 'nominal 6 ohm'. The bass extension and impedance are not worrisome, but if the tweeter is only capable of 91 db that might be the sticking point.
 
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