Sound opinions: Devore O/96 compared to Zu Druid V/Submission

Let me first say, I love the Valencias. Especially with the Jabo Labs autoformer crossovers took them to a whole different level than the stock crossover. Much more coherent. No more shrillness. More balanced sounding. Really unbelievable with Shindo gear.
That being said, whenever I swap the Line Magnetic 755i's back in the system, they simply make the Valencias sound broken. Especially with the Haut Brions. Sonically, they are more transparent, more coherent (no surprise), faster, with better treble and a ridiculous midrange. The bass was the biggest surprise. Truly great. In this regard, I think the Haut Brion with its slightly bumped up mid-bass is truly synergistic with the Line Magnetics. And they can play anything, not just solo guitar or vocal music. The only thing the Valencias do better is convey the weight of the music.
The Line Magnetics are magical at times, making you believe there is nothing in hetween you and the music. They make all music sound correct and make sense. The Altecs are loud, clear and awesome and the best budget match for Shindo gear in my opinion, but they are not magic.

Jay - that's a great comparison. Thanks! I get what you mean and I agree about the Altecs. Altecs of that design, including my 14's, have impact, but they lack the high end extension of more modern designs, even my inexpensive Rega's, and they need help with lower frequencies. Of course, my woofer surrounds have probably been in some state of degradation since I purchased them, so I probably never heard their best.

I may need to figure out a way to give the LM's a listen. I know that Chris "Cucumber Jones" got the Auditorium 23 Hommage 755's and he loves them. I'm not sure what the differences between the LM and the A23 speakers, aside from cabinet design. Do you know?

I'm jamming to Nick Waterhouse on Tidal over my cheap amp and speakers, and it sounds fantastic for mellow night listening. Do I need anything more? (rhetorical question) I love that there is a group of interesting like-minded guys to discuss these things with!
 
The difference, aside from the enclosure, is that the driver in the A23 speaker is a true WE replica 755a with Alnico magnet. The driver in Line Magnetic's own speaker is a field coil version of a 755a, which, historically, never existed.
I have not heard A23's speaker so I can't really compare. I can say, though, that the field coil power supply bias is adjustable, so that you can really fine tune the bass response in your room. A really nice option in my room, at least.
you should make the effort to hear one of these speakers. First of all, it truly sounds full range. But, more importantly, it has an indescribable quality to it. It sounds driving, vivid and relaxed all at the same time. Tough to explain until you have heard it.
 
I've heard both, quite extensively- and own Zus fwiw. I would recommend the Definition over the Druid/Sub combo unless you are a super tone junkie- the Def has better sound stage. Compared to the O96, the Zus are much more dynamic with more natural tone and better bass without the crossover (I feel the sealed bass is superior to the very warm bass of the O96). Both have nice, natural top ends unlike many speakers. The Devores are probably a more intimate speaker if that makes sense. Zus also integrate better into a room since they aren't wide baffle, aren't ported, and have active bass. Considering the Definition is actually cheaper than the O/96...

That said, I'm auditioning the Gibbon X in a few weeks which I expect to be better as I prefer that design to the Orangutan series.

Re: Zu speakers, any older Essence (just a bad speaker imo), Presence, or Druid IV review is quite different from Druid V/Definition IV- they really escalated there sound a few years back.
 
You mentioned you liked the dc10audio speakers, and you are local to them, have you gone for more of an audition? I have the Briton II"s with my Shindo gear and it is amazing. They're in a small room and work very well.
 
I've heard both, quite extensively- and own Zus fwiw. I would recommend the Definition over the Druid/Sub combo unless you are a super tone junkie- the Def has better sound stage. Compared to the O96, the Zus are much more dynamic with more natural tone and better bass without the crossover (I feel the sealed bass is superior to the very warm bass of the O96). Both have nice, natural top ends unlike many speakers. The Devores are probably a more intimate speaker if that makes sense. Zus also integrate better into a room since they aren't wide baffle, aren't ported, and have active bass. Considering the Definition is actually cheaper than the O/96...

That said, I'm auditioning the Gibbon X in a few weeks which I expect to be better as I prefer that design to the Orangutan series.

Re: Zu speakers, any older Essence (just a bad speaker imo), Presence, or Druid IV review is quite different from Druid V/Definition IV- they really escalated there sound a few years back.

That is very helpful. I have heard that the O/96's wider baffle can be more directional and the ported enclosure produces a bit softer (is that the right word?), though prodigious, and more difficult to tame bass. I've had mostly narrow baffle speakers, and I agree that the Zu's probably soundstage better and are likely the more adaptable to different rooms, be it the Definitions or the Druids. I'm not sure how important soundstage is to me. I really like to be enveloped by music, where the higher registers and midranges are couched in an enveloping sea of bass, even if the base is acoustic. My Altecs would do that wonderfully, but only with a sub to create the larger soundstage. I don't really care for holographic effects (the illusion of placement of musicians), but I'm sure that my current speakers and the Zu's do that better than the O/96's. If I wanted that and had different amps, I'd probably get the Silverbacks, which are fantastic at pretty much everything.

Of course, the thing that will elude me without a demo of the Zu's, is the sound. I'm intrigued that you believe the Zu's to have a more natural tone. Could you elaborate on that?

I'll look for your review of the Gibbon X's! Though they aren't the best match for me, I love the Silverbacks, and the X's use the tweeter and a similar woofer configuration. I bet they sound sweet.
 
You mentioned you liked the dc10audio speakers, and you are local to them, have you gone for more of an audition? I have the Briton II"s with my Shindo gear and it is amazing. They're in a small room and work very well.

I live an hour south of Santa Fe, where DC10 is located. I see that the Britons and the Kabuki Ohaku are their bigger speakers with 8 ohm impedance. I think that they are working on building a showroom, but even if it isn't open, I'll request an listen. Thanks!

What kind of amps do you use with the Britons?

edit -

I've scheduled a demo with Dave to hear some Berlins he has in stock. He's sold out of everything else (!) and is in production to prepare for the Munich High End show.
 
That is very helpful. I have heard that the O/96's wider baffle can be more directional and the ported enclosure produces a bit softer (is that the right word?), though prodigious, and more difficult to tame bass. I've had mostly narrow baffle speakers, and I agree that the Zu's probably soundstage better and are likely the more adaptable to different rooms, be it the Definitions or the Druids. I'm not sure how important soundstage is to me. I really like to be enveloped by music, where the higher registers and midranges are couched in an enveloping sea of bass, even if the base is acoustic. My Altecs would do that wonderfully, but only with a sub to create the larger soundstage. I don't really care for holographic effects (the illusion of placement of musicians), but I'm sure that my current speakers and the Zu's do that better than the O/96's. If I wanted that and had different amps, I'd probably get the Silverbacks, which are fantastic at pretty much everything.

Of course, the thing that will elude me without a demo of the Zu's, is the sound. I'm intrigued that you believe the Zu's to have a more natural tone. Could you elaborate on that?

I think another way to put it is Zus are a rock n roll, more in your face type speaker (lack of xover presumably the reason), whereas I felt the O 96s were more suitable for jazz and intimacy. The Os were a bit too warm for me, but zero fatigue. I'd say both speakers are better than 99% of what's out there. Ideally you could order a pair of Zus and have a Devore demo at the same time, in your own room on your amps. btw, if you really value tone over soundstage, go for the Druids. I think they would mate perfectly with the HB. The Defs definitely give up some tone due to the multiple FRDs. The Gibbon X is supposed to be a more modern, incisive sound which I feel I will like more. I'm off to Pitch Perfect Audio tomorrow, so may get to hear the A23 Hommage speakers- will see.

I tried SET and PP tubes (and a zillion other amps), but actually run DarTZeel now. Funny how things work out.
 
I think another way to put it is Zus are a rock n roll, more in your face type speaker (lack of xover presumably the reason), whereas I felt the O 96s were more suitable for jazz and intimacy. The Os were a bit too warm for me, but zero fatigue. I'd say both speakers are better than 99% of what's out there. Ideally you could order a pair of Zus and have a Devore demo at the same time, in your own room on your amps. btw, if you really value tone over soundstage, go for the Druids. I think they would mate perfectly with the HB. The Defs definitely give up some tone due to the multiple FRDs. The Gibbon X is supposed to be a more modern, incisive sound which I feel I will like more. I'm off to Pitch Perfect Audio tomorrow, so may get to hear the A23 Hommage speakers- will see.

I tried SET and PP tubes (and a zillion other amps), but actually run DarTZeel now. Funny how things work out.

SO how was your Visit to see Matt?
 
Sorry Cucumber, with Awards weekend I didn't end up making the trek over. Another Greenhaus night in a few weeks though. Matt's place is so much fun...and no dealer has a better bar :)
 
Hi Bongo,
I have the Druid V's and an Undertone sub (little brother to the Submission) and the pairing is wonderful. I run mine with Coincident Franks 300b amps using the 16ohm taps and have no problem driving them to loud levels in my 22.5' by 18.5' by 13' room which is open on one side (loft) so the room is about 40' long.

I heard the 0/96 at Devore audio a few years ago. The theme was movie soundtrack night. John was running them with a Shindo amp, the sound was just ok. I see a few people here just love them so maybe the synergy with the room and components weren't right. My friends and I asked if he could use a different amp but,he declined. The tone was nice but were polite sounding and to laid back for me. My friends and I left thinking what's all the fuss about. They are beautifully made but, are overpriced IMHO.

As a side note I heard Zu's not sound that good either. Zu had a NJ tour at my friends home. We were listening to the Def. IV's with a 2.5 watt SET amp and the sound was terrible. We switched amps to an Almarro which had about 12 to 16 watts and the sound was transformed. It really sounded like to different speakers.

I can tell you the new Def.IV's and Druid V's with the nano FRD and Radian tweeter are much better speakers then older Zu's. They are more refined, detailed, neutral, fast, without losing that beautiful tone and dynamics.

The Druid V and sub play all genre's of music well. I like to listen to all music but, really enjoy Jazz and think for my taste the Druid V and Undertone sub are a better fit then the Def.IV's.
They image better and are more intimate and they throw a huge soundstage with very good layering in my set-up.

Joe
 
Hi Bongo,
may I ask you after all those years and many of your listening experiences, how do you like your actual Shindo 604 and why did you decide for them, and against O96, Zu, A23 755, etc.

I am actually looking for speakers for my Giscours / Cortese, all of the above mentioned are in race, but the german Suesskind Puls as well, maybe not so well known in the US and Canada.

Please report about your experiences during your search and now long time experience with the Shindo 604 at home.

Thanks very much,
Balazs
 
Hi Bongo,
may I ask you after all those years and many of your listening experiences, how do you like your actual Shindo 604 and why did you decide for them, and against O96, Zu, A23 755, etc.

I am actually looking for speakers for my Giscours / Cortese, all of the above mentioned are in race, but the german Suesskind Puls as well, maybe not so well known in the US and Canada.

Please report about your experiences during your search and now long time experience with the Shindo 604 at home.

Thanks very much,
Balazs

Hi Balazs,
I’ve had the 604‘s for a few years now. I actually ordered without the chance to audition first, based on a few reviews, the recommendations from users of this and another forum, and help from my dealer. I couldn’t be happier with them. They took about a year to break in, and until they did, they sounded muffled (boy did I worry I’d made a mistake).

They are perfectly matched (impedance, etc.) to Shindo electronics and there is something just very right about that setup. And particular, they just seem to be able to create a vibrant sensation of either a performance happening in the room, or of being at a performance venue. This sensation seems to depend mostly on the size of the listening room, with the smaller room bringing out the former had a larger room bringing out the latter. There’s just something enchanting about the combination of the large resonant hollow cabinet and horn speakers that create such a dynamic, enveloping, but textural and tonal experience.

I’ve never heard the A23 speakers, so can’t comment. My dealer suggested that I consider the Hommage Cinemas when I was about to place the order for the 604’s, but they were too expensive.

At a dealer, I listened to Devore Silverbacks with a Cortese / Monbrison setup as my first Shindo experience. I was very impressed with how well they played with such a low watt amplifier. Big enveloping sound and sweet high-end. Very good. I could sense that the low-frequency was a little loosey-goosey, which would be expected from such a matching.

I later heard both the O93 and O96 with line magnetic amplification at an audio show. Both were very nice, but for some reason, in those
hotel rooms, the 093 matched the room better. I really liked them.

I heard the 096 in a dealer with all Shindo amplification, and thought it sounded quite good. However, it was a small demonstration room, and I remember thinking that the speakers sounded smaller than expected. They didn’t quite groove as much as I’d heard they would and they didn’t have the chance to inhabit (fill) the space with ambient effect or texture. Considering how important room dynamics are, and the fact that everyone who hears them loves them, I think the audition room was probably working against them. Something tells me that they would sound even better than the silverbacks, given the right room. The rear ports where the main reason I didn’t order them, because I have solid walls and floors, and I was worried that the low-frequency reinforcement would overwhelm whatever space they were in.

I’ve read lots of great things about Zu speakers, but I’ve only heard them at shows, and I was never impressed enough to stick around for very long. They just seemed to have, and this is just my opinion, a rather harsh high frequency response and a bit of a flat (wall of sound) presentation. I remember thinking they just sounded a little like old Cerwin Vega speakers. Now, I’ve read all the reviews on these, especially the Druids, and I bet they are incredible with the right amps in the right room. Their high sensitivity are also are a good match for low wattage amplification. The last time I heard Zu speakers was in 2013.

One thing that impresses me about the 604’s, is that they are fairly forgiving of the room dynamics. They sound very nice in a 20 x 20’ billiard room with 10 foot ceilings. However, they sound even better with room to breathe in our main living room/kitchen, which is about 25‘ x 45. The 604’s also have a lot of integrity, and by that I mean they are very handsome and capable, but also humble and understated. They are impeccably built to perform a function without superfluous design. I think the Japanese excel at this type of thing, striking a lovely balance between function and form. I guess some people get audio gear because it seems impressive, but I feel like Shindo gear, and this is going to sound a little weird, are more like living beings. I’m actually fond of them. Excellent hand made things are special, regardless of cost. I feel exactly the same way about my little $800 Almarro amp.

So, that’s my experience. Have fun thinking about and hopefully getting the speakers you want!
 
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