So why not the Apple Airport Express?

o0OBillO0o

o0OBillO0o

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Hi-

Why get worked up about what DAC, Player, NAS or Remote when the Apple Airport Express and Mac or PC does it all?

Suspend the obsession for 24 bit music and DSD. Turns out CD quality is great (see Tidal and your CD collection).

Here are two articles by the same author that should challenge you to question some of these obsessions or diversions. (Hopefully, to get you back to listening to Music.)

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/how-to-create-a-whole-house-music-system.htm

I've been using Apple Airport Express connected to my C2500 for a long time. Even works with Roon too. Keep it simple.
 
TOSLINK-FFT-10K-22k.gif


TOSLINK output: spectrum of 10,007 Hz 0 dBFS sine wave. (CBS CD-1 track 9, R&S UPL.) linkref: here
 
$99, plays steaming music, and extends your wireless internet. What are the drawbacks?
 
Bill

Have you tried the Chromecast Audio for $35 vs the Airport Express? I use the regular Chromecast in the spare rooms for the "kids" to use when they are in town instead of paying for mostly unused cable boxes. They can just use their phones to cast from my Comcast or their Netflix.
 
Jack said:
Bill

Have you tried the Chromecast Audio for $35 vs the Airport Express? I use the regular Chromecast in the spare rooms for the "kids" to use when they are in town instead of paying for mostly unused cable boxes. They can just use their phones to cast from my Comcast or their Netflix.
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Yes, I know all about the Chromecast and Chromecast Audio. They are great.

Chromecast Audio sports 24 bit / 96KHz streaming. You may need the Chromecast Audio Ethernet adaptors if you get dropouts at the high bits rates over wifi.

I didn't share it first, because I couldn't find equivalent test data found on the Airport Express.

I'd imagine it's an equivalent performer, just plug into a DACs optical input and enjoy!
 
Well, the old Apple TV is even less expensive (79$) and does the same -- that is my advice to clients asking for a budget solution, and even my backup when the fancy servers are out: one old Apple TV and one half decent DAC and you do get some pleasant enough music.

Still, while there's no reason to get worked up whatsoever, I wouldn't say it is in the same universe as a good server (which admittedly is 100 times more expensive and maybe only ten times as good) if you have a good system. But as Mike says, nothing wrong for the price, quite the opposite.
 
Julot said:
Well, the old Apple TV is even less expensive (79$) and does the same -- that is my advice to clients asking for a budget solution, and even my backup when the fancy servers are out: one old Apple TV and one half decent DAC and you do get some pleasant enough music.

Still, while there's no reason to get worked up whatsoever, I wouldn't say it is in the same universe as a good server (which admittedly is 100 times more expensive and maybe only ten times as good) if you have a good system. But as Mike says, nothing wrong for the price, quite the opposite.
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Hi Julot :D

I like the AppleTV. The Apple TV 4 (released Oct '15) is great, and I like the Apple TV 2 & 3 (720p vs 1080p).

Unlike the Apple Airport Express's bit perfect 16 bit 44KHz output, the AppleTV 2 & 3 adopts the DVD and Bluray PCM sample rate of 48KHz. I don't know about the AppleTV 4, it has only a HDMI output (which I is probably a 48KHz sample rate). We'll see what Apple releases for tech specs. Still, this resampling of music files recorded with 44KHz sampling rate to 48KHz is a technical point of order. Does it degrade the sound?

In absence of evidence to support this point, draw your own conclusions, but the AppleTV is a lesser product for Music playback as compared to the Apple Airport Express. In my personal set-up, I find this to be true.

Interestingly, Apple appears to be aware of this and from the AppleTV, users can select the audio output to the Airport express and the video output to the TV. Which is very neat, plus users can watch the album art flip on the screen. Even better users enable desktop mirroring and send the iTunes music visualizer for some "groovy" effects while the music plays.

And I digress...

Bottom line : Apple TV = video, Apple Airport Express = Audio. Further, the Apple Airport Express is not a budget item if it outperforms other digital streamers- regardless of the price.
 
I've used Apple's Airport Express extensively, and still use lots of those around the store, to extend our network without having to run Ethernet wire through the house.

Apple networking gear is not the best performing out there, but it's by far the most robust and trouble-free. I've bought an Asus, on a friend's recommendation, and it didn't last a day. Brought the Apple stuff back. I can get better range with one main Apple Airport router + several Airport Express extenders.

As for the Airplay functionality, I also used it extensively, including comparing it against a CD player (Esoteric). No comparison, CD is *much* better. I wouldn't use Airplay for any serious listening, as it really "blurs" the music too much. Of course, it's very convenient and also generally trouble-free, but it's not the ideal solution, and if I had to guess, I believe it's because you're using a sub-optimal, jitter-prone digital interface (Toslink), and also because Airplay upsamples (or re-samples actually) everything to 16/48. So 16/44 is made 16/48, 24/96 is made 16/48, etc.

So, in a nuthsell, as a pure network device, it's fantastic. As a transport, not so much. An Auralic Aries Mini would be what I'd use, if I wanted to do streaming on the cheap, as it'll pick up the wireless signal too, and has SPDIF, USB as well as Toslink. Oh, and it does Airplay too, if you gotta have that :)
 
asiufy said:
I've used Apple's Airport Express extensively, and still use lots of those around the store, to extend our network without having to run Ethernet wire through the house.

Apple networking gear is not the best performing out there, but it's by far the most robust and trouble-free. I've bought an Asus, on a friend's recommendation, and it didn't last a day. Brought the Apple stuff back. I can get better range with one main Apple Airport router + several Airport Express extenders.

As for the Airplay functionality, I also used it extensively, including comparing it against a CD player (Esoteric). No comparison, CD is *much* better. I wouldn't use Airplay for any serious listening, as it really "blurs" the music too much. Of course, it's very convenient and also generally trouble-free, but it's not the ideal solution, and if I had to guess, I believe it's because you're using a sub-optimal, jitter-prone digital interface (Toslink), and also because Airplay upsamples (or re-samples actually) everything to 16/48. So 16/44 is made 16/48, 24/96 is made 16/48, etc.

So, in a nuthsell, as a pure network device, it's fantastic. As a transport, not so much. An Auralic Aries Mini would be what I'd use, if I wanted to do streaming on the cheap, as it'll pick up the wireless signal too, and has SPDIF, USB as well as Toslink. Oh, and it does Airplay too, if you gotta have that :)
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asiufy, thanks for sharing your story. :D

I employ Apple Networking gear in the home, and I have used Asus, NetGear and Linksys. Additionally, everything is accessing ethernet, except iOS devices. I have the best results with Apple products. My Apple Airport Express is hardwired via ethernet and outputs via MiniTOSLink to TOSlink cable.

Of note: if you having Airplay or Wifi issues, use a Macbook Air, press option and click the Wifi Icon in the menu bar and select "open wireless diagnostics."

The Apple Airport Express outputs a bit-perfect 16 bit 44Khz PCM audio stream. Almost no Jitter. Please look at the page citation and the link.

As I suspected, the TOSLINK output is perfect; any audible limitation here is the AirPort's DAC and your source material. As far as I can tell short of comparing bit-for-bit, the optical digital output is a perfect copy of the original, the whole point of digital audio.
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Link ref: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm

Comparing a fine, such as the Esoteric, CD Player to the Apple Airport Express is a worth-while endeavor, plus if you can use the CD Player's digital input (where available) you may be able to test the CD vs Digital file over Airplay.

Your claims need some data to support it, unless you're going to say it's your opinion. Which is cool. Maybe a provide us an outline of how you developed your perspective. I'm not convinced that there is "no comparison." Also what is "serious listening" and how do you make a determination of when you transition to "not serious listening?"

I guess the way to discredit the test data by Ken Rockwell, we need some form of peer review of the methods and second confirmation (or more) that his measurements are fact.
 
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the link. I don't know who Ken Rockwell is, and the last thing I want is to discredit his findings. Most of the time, I just go by what my ears tell me, since measurements only tell part of the story anyway.

Apparently, Ken used the internal DAC of the Airport, and used its analog output on the headphone jack. I didn't. Toslink out only, using outboard DAC. As I said, I could feed the same (Esoteric) DAC Toslink data from the Airport, and CD data from an Esoteric transport. The Toslink data came from the very same CD, ripped on my Mac losslessly.

I'm just saying the Toslink was clearly, clearly inferior, to the most precise instrument I had at my disposal: my ears :D
Fortunately, I had the means to try, and now I know where I place Airplay/Airport Express as a transport in the myriad of transport choices I have (not very high).

Serious listening is when you want to really enjoy music fully, to really get the full benefit of your investment in all that high-end audio equipment. When I play a new album for the first time, for instance, I want to make sure the system sounds good enough so I can properly and fully assess that album, both for its musical mertis, as well as its sonic qualities. If the system is being held back somewhere, knowingly, I would never be able to assess the record.

"Not serious listening" is when you just want to have some music while you do something else, work maybe, or cook. Tidal with Airplay would work beautifully for that purpose.

As a footnote, a lot of other companies have licensed Airplay, and built into their products, like Aurender, Auralic, Linn, and Hegel. Hegel actually claims to have significantly improved Airplay performance on their H360 integrated and the new HD30 DAC!

All this talk made me curious, and I'll run some more tests in the systems in the store once I have the chance...
 
asiufy said:
All this talk made me curious, and I'll run some more tests in the systems in the store once I have the chance...
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Right on! I'm with you on this. I want a hard look to be made on the Apple Airport Express. On the optimistic end we learn that simply all one needs is low jitter bit perfect output. On the opposite scale, we learn that Airplay and the Apple Airport Express is garbage. I'm oversimplifying, but I hope you catch my intention. Further, we see a pragmatic use for creation of such device.
 
I'll keep you all posted :)

But one thing: the world should not be made of extremes. Most often, the truth lies somewhere in the middle :)
 
Right.

You've said two smart things.

1) "measurements tell part of the story." My opinion here is we're not measuring all the right factors. We can measure anything. Still, the human ear and brain are both highly subjective. Objective measures or facts provide evidence discriminate performance.

2) "The world should be not made of extremes." My opinion is that there is lots of middle ground in the world. But I enjoy binary answers and the extreme. These make it easy to differentiate.
 
Jack said:
Bill

Have you tried the Chromecast Audio for $35 vs the Airport Express? I use the regular Chromecast in the spare rooms for the "kids" to use when they are in town instead of paying for mostly unused cable boxes. They can just use their phones to cast from my Comcast or their Netflix.
Click to expand...

So, I can Cast my cable box signal to another TV?
 
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