Small Room - Any Advise Please

Hi Jim; well, its all about math and science with me when it comes to speaker positioning in a room and the size of the room itself.
[…]

A room that is 10ft. wide X 18ft. long X 8ft. or 10ft. high can be divided eaually by 2ft. in every dimension. This assures major nulls and peaks in the bass and a lumpy mid frequency and curtailed highs if you sit anywhere in the room which the footage from where you sit to where any given surface is (wall, ceiling, etc.) can be divided by 2ft. While siting, your head is about 3 feet from the floor. That's an odd number and a good one to start with. [...]

Hi Doc,

I hope you do realize that your "equal divisions" and "odd numbers" are based on an arbitrary unit, a foot? If you would measure in meters instead of feet, like the rest of the world does except the US and a few others, all your conclusions based on foot break down (1 meter = approx. 3 feet). Unless you can relate certain bass frequencies with precise foot lengths of waves. But these would be just single frequencies, not frequency bands.

Al
 
Al,

Enjoyed your good thoughts on this. However a given frequency of sound (vibrating air molecules in a wave lenghth) does not care how many inches, meters or hand spans, for that matter, it is away from any given surface. When a surface reflects more vibrating air molecules (sound waves) at the same frequency of vibration into other parts of the room which have identical vibration frequencies, at an identical decibel level, they will cancel each other out, thus creating a null or no sound at all at the frequency played.

Conversely, when a given frequency builds up with more identical frequencies around it but at different decibel levels, you have a peak at that frequency. Bass boom is the most common result of this. A given bass frequency, such as 40Hz builds up in the corner of a room, and, at the speed of sound, a pulse of the same 40Hz frequency follows behind the original 40Hz frequency trapped in the corner of the room for a nano second. Thus, one 40Hz sound joins in with another identical 40Hz sound buy at a slightly lower decibel level which makes that 40Hz sound louder (hence a boom is heard).

If the room's dimensions, location of the speakers in that room, and the sitting position of the listener are all uneven to each other (not dividable by 2, be it a metric measurement or English measurement, the odds of cancellations, nulls and peaks are greatly reduced or tamed.

All frequencies have a precise wave length. The lower the frequency of moving air molecules, the longer the wave length of the sound heard. Since the room in which the sound is produced has nearly an unlimited number of wave length receptors (walls, ceiling, floor, furniture, etc.) and the speakers produce nearly an unlimited number of wave lengths from approximately 32 feet (deep bass) to less than an inch (high treble), there is going to be thousands of ripples in the sound heard that will be from a 1/8 of of decibel to as high as 30 decibels referenced from a straight line flat room response. This, of course, is dependent on the frequency and its relationship in the atmosphere in the room and its reflection of a large number of surfaces before it drops below a decibel level (sound volume) which cannot be heard.

In my former discussion with you, I spoke of dimensions of an ideal size room and then the dimensions of the room in question (10X18X8 feet). Since we were dealing in feet and not the metric measurement system, I used feet to express what's so regarding said rooms and how sound within those rooms would likely be if the room was not treated and the sound from the speakers digitally equalized to counter room caused sound problems. We can reduce feet to millionths of an inch if you wish and do the same with meters, too. The method of measurement is not important. What is important is that the measurements from one surface to another in relationship with ones speaker's positions and the location of one's ears at their sitting position while listening to music being reproduced from said speakers is what is very important. If the primary large surfaces of the room measurement numbers end up being not dividable into each other or by 2, from where one's ears will be while listening to music the decibel rise and fall of every frequency produced will be less molested or disturbed, thus allowing for a flatter frequency response within the room which results in hearing the sound produced by the speakers and not badly altered by the room before the sound gets to one's ears.

Once again, I'm not making this up or working from some sort of placebo driven audiophile hype. I'm simply remaining within the realm of the science of AUDIO acoustics working within known and proven math configurations. If you wish to use meters in an 10X18X8 foot room with concrete walls, and from there determine where you should sit, place speakers, install room treatment, and at what frequencies to equalize your speakers to correct for room issues using metric measjurements, then be my guest. Using fractional inches, complete inches and feet will get the same result. You live where the metric system is used. I do not. I live where the English measurement system is primarily used for commercial products and home construction. It matters not which is used, as converting the English measurement system to metrics, and using the equal dividing rule of 2 or 1 into 1 as previously detailed will get you the same exact ideal results. And, like I said previously, the person who asked about his room in reference to feet measured tells me to give an answer in the English measurement system (feet, inches, etc.). Had I responded with a conversion to the metric system, the person who inquired about his room would probably not understand what to do or how to measure in that manner as his tape measure is obviously in feet, inches and fraction of inches and not meters.

Regarding your comment on "single frequencies, not frequency bands", be advised that if a 40Hz tone slams into another 40Hz tone at the same time and at the same decibel level but one of the 40Hz tones came from the speaker and the other from a reflection off of a wall from a 40Hz tone played a micro second before the next 40Hz tone played from your speaker(s) at the exact same decibel level, you will not hear that 40Hz tone. When both 40Hz tones collide, they cancel each other out and no sound is heard. This creates a null in the sound at that frequency for as long as that frequency is played by your speakers (such as long 40Hz note from a bass pedal of an organ). This is true of all frequencie...period. Now, Al, what happens when several frequencies close to one another, say from 80 cycles to 40 Hz are being played by your speakers at an 80dB sound pressure level at your sitting/listening position. These frequencies of moving air molecules first hit your ears, then a micro second later those same frequencies of moving air molecules (sound) are hitting your ears by being bounced off the floor, walls, ceiling, etc. and slam into the same frequencies hitting your ears. Since said frequencies are not hitting each other at the exact split, micro second, but otherwise are micro close, they will not cancel each other out, but they will reduce their decibel level, thus causing a dip in the sound frequency from 80Hz to 40Hz. So, Al, sound can be effected by the room not only at a give narrow frequency (say 40Hz or 80Hz to 40Hz in this example) but also many related frequencies near each other, thus causing dips and swells in the sound caused by the room. Therefore, this is where room treatment comes into play to control the large dips and swells in the frequency band affected. EQ is also ideal for very narrow frequency band adjustments such as a large 8dB spike at 81Hz to 83Hz that annoys and should be reduced by 8dB of sound pressure by reducing the current at thpse frequency to cause a -0- flat response in the room at that frequency. There is also EQ which can manage large swells and dips, too. Keep in mind that anytime you equalize any frequency to sound flat where you are sitting and listening to music, it will throw out a molest a flat frequency elsewhere in the room which was previously flat. So, make a 40Hz dip of 5dB become flat to 0dB where you sit, and you have taken a flat area somewhere else in the room and caused it to dip 5dB at 40Hz. This is acceptable so long as where that occurs no one is sitting to listen to music. This is why it is very difficult to equalize a home theater to a flat room response to all seated in the the theater. One can only "average" the frequency response in all seat areas for, at best, a compromised EQ'd room. Therefore, the person sitting in the middle front row of chairs gets a flat + or - 3dB frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz at 75dB at that seat. The person in the second row of chairs, in the right side of the room chair may hear a + or - 9dB frequency response of the same sound at a slightly decreased decibel level (because they are further away from the speakers and reflections form the walls, ceiling and floor molests the sound while listening to it in that particular theater seat.

Got all of that? In short, acoustic science and engineering often boggles the minds of those who even have a PhD in that field. It seems like one is chasing their tail when they get the mind wrapped around what is happening acoustically due to the dimensions of their room, position of their speakers, where they sit to listen to music and where many other objects are positioned in the room, plus if the room leaks air into other areas outside of the room and if the interior walls are rigid (concrete) or flexible (thin sheet rock).

Finally, I advised you of my listening rooms dimensions, what's so in that regard with your room? Just curious.

"Nuff said' Doc
 
You live where the metric system is used. I do not. I live where the English measurement system is primarily used for commercial products and home construction.

Doc,

thanks for your reply. I live in the US as well, in Massachusetts, but I grew up in Europe.

As for the remainder of your post, give me some time to digest it, it's interesting for sure.

Finally, I advised you of my listening rooms dimensions, what's so in that regard with your room? Just curious.

Room dimensions are 24’ x 12’ (small window bay next to the left speaker 13.5’) x 8.5’; for room, see:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17334-My-minimonitor-subwoofer-system

(next thread page for window plugs installed)

Speaker cones are 7 feet from the front wall, I sit 8 feet from the mid point on the line between the speakers (ca. 9 feet from each speaker). So these positions are at uneven numbers from the room dimensions. If I understand what you say, then the window bay next to the left speaker should also help to 'break' peaks and nulls.
 
i would go for this speaker:

living voice obx-rw

in combination with a nice tube amp.

very natural sound.
 
Hi Al;

Based on the photos of your room and the "He-Man" audio rig in it, plus the measurements of your room and where you have located your speakers and where you sit to listen to your music, you are close enough to spot on. You see, your speakers are approximately 1/3 of the way out from the wall behind your speakers in your 24 foot length listening room. You sit approximately 1/3 of the way into your room as measured from the back wall. This puts about 1/3 of the length of your 24 ft. room between your ears and the cones of your speakers in front of you. You have, Al, established distances in approximate thirds from speakers to wall, from speakers to you and from you to back wall. A 33.3% length of any room cannot be divided evenly or by 2 or 1 into 1. Therefore, you have the ideal set up as far as length goes. Your height of your ears from the floor and ceiling is also nearly 1/3 from the floor and 2/3 of the height to your ceiling. The rub in your set up is the width of your room. 12 feet of width can be divided evenly into 24 feet of length buy 2, thus causing a large null and a bump in the frequency spectrum within your room based upon a 75dB output to the microphone, using pink noise from 20Hz to 20kHz.

A calibrated frequency spectrum analyzer with a good calibrated mike placed on a stand where your head would normally be while listening to your hi-fi would reveal at what frequencies the nulls and peaks would be at the microphone in your room caused by the size specifications of your room.

I would not be surprised if your room treatment has reduced said nulls and peaks caused by your room's "even" measurements, but your room treatment could not get rid of said nulls and peaks entirely. Room sound treatment simply cannot do so. Room treatment tames frequencies, it does not remove them entirely. To flatten a null or peak completely to plus or minus 1/2 db takes careful use of equalization (preferably digital equalization) of all octaves of sound produced by your speakers plus digital phase alignment and electronic time alignment of your speaker's drivers.

There are analogue to digital and digital (96Hz/24Bit) then back to analogue devices that connect between your pre-amplifier and power amplifier. Such a digital device to manage the frequencies output by a pair of stereo speakers cost under $400.00. These devices equalize the frequency spectrum of each speaker driver on its own, when measured with a calibrated mic six inches from the cone and then EQ's the entire speaker to flatten the frequency heard within the room from where you sit to listen to music. These indispensable magic boxes operate very quietly at a 110 dB signal to noise ratio. They make no sound of their own with zero effect on the quality of the sound form your speaker's drivers. They simply adjust frequencies from 14Hz to 25,000Hz to a flat response (typical to plus or minus 2 dB along the entire frequency range) when heard by the microphone at a sound pressure of 75dB to 85dB. These little magic boxes also put the sound from your speaker drivers in perfect phase with each other and the room in which the speakers operate as heard by the microphone and then time aligns the drivers sound output so that the sound (all frequencis) from each driver reaches the microphone at exactly the same time. Finally they greatly reduce and smooth pulse distortion of the drivers. The end result of all of this is sound that is so clear, so real, so live sounding, you can ABX compare what you speakers are playing to the live instruments that were used to make the recording in your listening room and be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two. If you want more info on these devices, just ask. Talk to you later. Doc
 
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Hi Doc,

thank you for your detailed answer. I am glad to hear that length-wise my set-up is close to optimal, and that the height of my room helps. Yes, the length vs. width dimensions may be problematic, but perhaps, as I suggested earlier, they are ameliorated by the small window bay, which across its length makes the room 13.5' wide instead of 12' wide, offering a break from the symmetry with the length of 24'.

In any case, while the bass in my sweetspot is great, I do have an irritating low-frequency bump right next to it, extending all the way towards the far right side of the room. I am wondering if this might be helped by IsoThermal tube traps in the back of the room, which are supposed to tame the 'rear-wall bounce' of low frequencies:

http://www.acousticsciences.com/products/isothermal-tubetrap

As for digital room correction, that sounds enticing. Yet I'd rather employ it in the digital domain within a server feeding my DAC. No need to have an extra AD/DA conversion step. The DAC feeds my amp directly, I don't have a pre-amp.
 
Al;

Your best bet if you do not use digital room EQ is to set up one end of your room to be live and the other dead. The live end should have devices that will scatter the sound. In a pinch you can use book shelves mounted to the wall with real books on them staggard in and out on the shelve (not even). This breasks up the sound fed off the back of your speaker cabinets and reflection from forward walls, ceiling and floor. It gives the entire front end of your listening room a very life, you are there quality and a bigger sound illusion. Meanwhile, take the back of your room and hang some heavy cloth tapestries or an attractive carpet to end all echo slap from that region. This will also make your room sound bigger and not dampen the highs too much.

Another thing you should do is use three sub woofers. One is usually not enough, two makes things better, three makes the bass really work and irons out nulls and peaks and four doesn't make much more of an improvement. So use three. Cross over from 80Hz on down. Do not cross over any higher as you'll be running all of your subs in line from your preamps sub outlet (which is the left and right channels mixed into one channel. Since base is omnidirectional below 80Hz (per Tom Holdmans Experiments, hence the logo THX), you don't need to put your deep base into a stereo mode. With all speakers playing in three different points in your room, the peaks and nulls will be greatly smoothed out by ending bass cancellations and corner boom. The ideal set up is to place two sub woofers approximately 1/3 of the way down on each of your side walls. This would place them about where your speakers are now standing. They would fire down the wall and not toward your speakers or the center of the room (this is to prevent bass cancellation below 80Hz. Put the third sub woofer at the center of the back wall behind you. Then fire up your system featuring music with extremely deep bass (pipe organ, bass guitar, bass drums, bass viol, etc.). Next, walk around the room. The bass should sound very even no matter where you stand as long as you are four or more feet away from your subwoofer. This should also help solve the bump in frequency you spoke of.

The subwoofers to use should sport no less than a 12-inch woofer in size. 15-inch woofers are even better (more air molecules are moved with less movement of the woofer which reduces distortion. A ported woofer breaths nicely and will produce lower bass as a rule. However, an air suspension (sealed box) woofer will sound a bit smoother, have lower distortion and no chuffing air sound coming from a tuned bass port. Make sure your subs are self powered with a high wattage class D plate amplifier built into the back of the speaker enclosure. They should have a built in variable cross over control and volume control and ideally minimal EQ in the region in which they operate (all found on the back of the woofer's enclosure). The rear woofer should be six inches from the wall. The side woofers should be 3 inches from the wall. The woofers, all operating at the same time should be balanced in sound dB output to match the same volume yuour front speakers produce at the position in which you sit to listen to music. This is accomplished with a test CD to set the loudness level of each speaker in your system to 75 dB. Finally the woofer should be specified to operate from 80Hz down to 20Hz flat, plus or minus 1 dB with the sound meter or test microphone 1 meter from the center of the woofer's enclosure. Thereafter, the woofer can roll off rapidly below 20Hz. Very few musical instruments and movie sound effects operate below 20Hz. Most achieve 32 Hz as a norm. Therefore, you are not looking for ultra deep bass as it is difficult to find such low frequencies recorded on a CD that go that low. You'll have to get a huge pipe organ recording or synthesizer to hear that deep level of bass. Therefore, focus more on the quality of the bass. It should be tuneful (musical) and not pounding out the same tone of a note. It should be quick with out bass hangover. The quality of the woofer driver has everything to do with this. Look for a huge magnet motor assembly and the woofer is okay in paper or ceramic or aluminum. I prefer paper from my experience with sub woofers because it sounds more natural (musical) when playing real deep bass instruments such as the bass viol, kettle drums, bass guitar, etc.

Get your base frequencies from 250 cycles on down is the most critical thing you can do for your sound system. Once the bass region is spot on, the rest falls into line if it is reproduced with a relatively flat frequency response at the listing position. Good bass is what makes musical enjoyable to listen to. And, I don't mean the gut pounding bass heard in cars that rattles their windows. That's pure junk. I mean the sound of the cavity of a bass viol resonating in a lush tone down around the 60 to 100 cycle region. I want to hear the skin resonate on a bass drum in a college band. I want to hear room air molecule lock which seems to be moving everything in the room at 20 to 40 Hz when a pipe organ hits a 32Hz C pedal note at 100dB. So be very picky about your bass, as picky as you would be with the mids and highs.

Finally, using room treatment to treat bass freaquencies rarely works well. For instance, to control a 50Hz bass region (to eliminate a swell or annoying spike in that region of say 7dB, you would requore a bail of fiberglass sound insulation that is 3 feet thick covering your entire back wall to absorb and dampen the peak. Truly, the best way to eliminate major bass disorders is to get proper placement of your subwoofers for the flattest response possible in their operating range and then apply digital EQ using a device that has a very good, and quiet D to A converter operating at 96Hz/24bits at a minimum with a signal to noise ratio of no less than 110db.

I use an OPPO 105D as my pre-pro and CD player. This unit features 3 sabre DACs which run at an extremely quiet 130dB signal to noise ratio and are consider the finest in the world. They are in the Oppo BDP 105D (Darby) CD/DVD/Blue Ray player, preamplifer/Processor. It sports 8 channesl of analogue output to plug right into your power amps. So you are in the digital domain from playing a CD or DVD or SACD or streaming high rez music at 96Hz/24 bit or higher right up to the conversion to analogue of those digits at the analogue outputs that feed extremely clear, pure, clean analogue signal to your power your amps. If you choose to use digital EQ, you would plug the analogue outputs from the Oppo (or digital preamp) into the analogue inputs of the EQ's device, which in turn, converts the signal to the digital domain processes it to EQ each of your individual speaker drivers and then the speakers and the speakers in your room, plus time aligns each driver, and cleans up the pulse of each driver, and sets each driver to the same decibel volume level and also will dross over your drivers at any frequency you choose.

You can now remove from your speakers he passive (sound robbing) cross over network and cross your drivers over in the digital domain prior to the power amplifier and bi or tri-amplifify your speakers. All of this takes place in a box not much larger than your fist that can be tucked away out of sight behind your He-Man Components. The digital control of your system and speakers is set up on your lap top computer using a good $95.00 calibrated mic and a free calibration program on line which will provide you all that is need to do all of things previously mentioned to your speakers, room and overall sound system.

The end result will blow your mind. The realism you'll fetch from your speakers will be mind boggling to you. By eliminating the passive cross over, and powering each driver with a 100 to 200 watt RMS high quality amp, your tweeter, mid and bass drivers times two speakers will require six mono amps or 3 stereo amps, plus the plate class D amps to power your sub woofers will give you a total of 8 amps powering 8 different drivers electronically crossed over in the digital domain with a signal to noise ratio not possible in the analogue domain using a passive power robbing, distortion causing cross over network. Time alignment of the drivers will eliminate phase problems and phase align your speakers with your sub woofers, too.

Audiophiles who take the time to explore the web and read about digital EQ, room conditioning, sub woofer control, etc. and then learn that the components to do this are very affordable (far less money than elaborate room sound conditioning pads, window fillers, resonators and like devices). You also get an attractive room back by not having to turn your room into what looks like a sound studio. Your room can look far more attractive with those devices removed from your room.

Well, as usual, I have gone on a rant here, which I hope has got you to doing some serious investigation into the digital speaker driver EQ, cross over, phase alignment, pulse control, room EQ , decibel level balancing of all drivers plus balancing the entire speaker system to the same volume level, and room sound conditioning and tuning all done from one little affordable, black box.

It takes about a day to set up all of the parameters that little box controls in your room and system...but once everything has been set up by the book, the sound you will hear will far surpass the sound you now have both in quality and reality. This also works well for a home theater set up, too. A box for stereo only is about $350.00. One for stereo plus sub woofers is $500.00. One for a seven channel, plus sub output (8 channel) home theater cost $1,000.00. An excellent, calibrated mic is usually included, plus the programming download to install into the box as you work your way through every tweak and adjustment parameter offered by the system (hence a good six hour install, which I might add is fascinating and fun). Once set, turn off your computer and disconnect it from the mic and your pre-amplifier or streamer. It is no longer needed. The programming is saved and locked into that little black box which is always left on and ready to go each and every time you fire up your He-Man audio rig.

Best Regards.... Doc
 
Hi Doc,

thanks for a once more detailed reply. Don't worry, my bass at the listening position is excellent, according all the attributes you describe. On my system thread Madfloyd wrote (in 2 different posts):

"It [the system] has FAST bass, with no overhang and transients that floored me." […]

"And the percussion was dynamite!

"Since the last time I was there, I also noted much more linear bass - to the point where I couldn't hear the crossover point from his mini monitors to his sub. We played a cut off Eric Dolphy's Out To Lunch and everything, including the acoustic bass was fantastic. Detailed with a dig-in punch that was very realistic and enjoyable." (He is a bass player himself.)

On another occasion an audiophile visited who was also a drummer, and he was impressed by the weight, punch, speed and rhythm of the bass as well.

The problem with bass boom is only outside the sweet spot. I used to have two subs, but found that at the sweet spot the sound with two or just one subs made no difference. Possibly the second sub would have helped with the sound outside the sweet spot, but I didn't test for that at the time.

(I sold it because at first, for several years, I used the subs from the 'hi' input from the amps themselves, but when I switched to the 'low' input directly from the DAC I discovered that it was only possible from one sub; the other one, same model but one year older, had different inputs. I would have had to ship it to California for modification, too much hassle it seemed at the time.)
 
Al;

Your best bet if you do not use digital room EQ is to set up one end of your room to be live and the other dead. The live end should have devices that will scatter the sound. In a pinch you can use book shelves mounted to the wall with real books on them staggard in and out on the shelve (not even). This breasks up the sound fed off the back of your speaker cabinets and reflection from forward walls, ceiling and floor. It gives the entire front end of your listening room a very life, you are there quality and a bigger sound illusion. Meanwhile, take the back of your room and hang some heavy cloth tapestries or an attractive carpet to end all echo slap from that region. This will also make your room sound bigger and not dampen the highs too much.

Interesting, there are two schools of thought on this that favor the opposite. You appear to favor a live front end of the room and a dead back end and I have heard that opinion elsewhere too. I have it precisely the other way around, as also Art Noxon from ASC of tube trap fame and others prefer. It works wonderfully well for my room. Indeed, when my front end (where the speakers are) was too lively (an issue solved with ASC window plugs), I had problems with recessed sound as discussed here under 1):

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...bwoofer-system&p=327894&viewfull=1#post327894
 
I love the theory of digital room EQ but I have never heard a system that the digital EQ didn't do more harm than good. Yes, the freq response has changed and lets say for the better, but the soul of the music has been lost.

Just my $.02
 
I love the theory of digital room EQ but I have never heard a system that the digital EQ didn't do more harm than good. Yes, the freq response has changed and lets say for the better, but the soul of the music has been lost.Just my $.02
I have heard digital EQ work rather well on two occasions.
 
Al,

Nice to hear from you. Be advised, it is an acoustical, scientific fact, 3 sub woofers in a room like yours will dramatically improve the base dispersion be acceptable at any reasonable sitting position in front of your speakers.

Put on sub at the front wall 1/3 of the way in from the left wall, and against the front wall. Put the remaining two sub woofers 1/3 of the say into the room from the left and right side walls along the back wall. This will flatten a lot of peaks and dips (suck outs) and nulls and annoying spikes. It will also make sitting in front of the speaker in the sweet spot (center and to the right and left of the sweet spot bass sound reasonably flat, thus very-very good. All listeners will be thrilled with your base regardless of where they sit.

To test this out, simply put your mono sub woofer (crossed over at or below 80Hz and playing base at 40HZ at 75dB) where you normally sit to listen to music (the sweet spot, center). Then while the 40Hz test tone is playing, crawl around the room with a sound decibel meter and see where in the room you get the loudest reading on the meter. That is where you woofer should be placed while you are sitting in the sweet spot listening ot music. Put woofers where the three loudest readings were discovered with use of your sound decibel meter and that is where all three sub woofers should be placed. You'll find the positions I suggested is bout where those loudest decibel readings will be.

The end results of the position, play and crawl for best bass routine is to get the loudest bass at 40Hz with the least amount of voltage output from your amps. In doing this, you are engaging your room to amplify your bass along with your amplifier to further amplify and convey the bass to your ears within the realm of a flat response. This also smooths the bass over the bass freuency realm from 250 Hz down to 16 Hz.

Doc
 
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I love the theory of digital room EQ but I have never heard a system that the digital EQ didn't do more harm than good. Yes, the freq response has changed and lets say for the better, but the soul of the music has been lost.

Just my $.02


Not to mention analog is out.

A lot of generalities are being thrown around here that change completely with each rooms construction parameters, the speakers individual frequency response, placement and the listening position. "Rules of thumb" are dangerous in this game. Each case is different and to get the best results there is no substitute for measuring the systems behavior and treating the modes and reflections accordingly. IMO the speaker choice in a room like this is less important than properly treating the room.
 
Thanks, Doc, for your helpful advice.

Al

Al,

Nice to hear from you. Be advised, it is an acoustical, scientific fact, 3 sub woofers in a room like yours will dramatically improve the base dispersion be acceptable at any reasonable sitting position in front of your speakers.

Put on sub at the front wall 1/3 of the way in from the left wall, and against the front wall. Put the remaining two sub woofers 1/3 of the say into the room from the left and right side walls along the back wall. This will flatten a lot of peaks and dips (suck outs) and nulls and annoying spikes. It will also make sitting in front of the speaker in the sweet spot (center and to the right and left of the sweet spot bass sound reasonably flat, thus very-very good. All listeners will be thrilled with your base regardless of where they sit.

[…]

Doc
 
After the demo I heard today at Mike's house....MAGICO S-1 mk ll's. Pure joy is all I can say.
 
For a small room, I would almost always go with bookshelf speakers. When I moved from a big house to a small place (divorce hurrah 😀), I quickly learned to hate the big tower speakers (expensive from a very well known brand) that had served me so well in a large room. They just didn't work. I am much happier with my current setup, even though that is not a brand recommendation.... Speakers are a very personal choice.
 
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