good call on the manley ive heard the amp but always wondered how the 300b pre would sound with it as i never heard that and supposedly they go together wonderfully. and the fact that you can use the amp in push pull also, offering 24w is pretty cool although the only person i know with this manley told me he never uses the pp mode on it because its good but not as good as the set mode.
SET amps
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
KeithR
Active member
Mike- my Triode 845SE integrated amp had a balanced input. But the sound was old school, vintage tube and was quite soft despite weighing 90 lbs.
That said, the Melody 845 integrated fully retubed is fantastic- and does have an XLR input.
Keith
- Thread Author
- #23
Thanks guys. Very interesting.
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KeithR
Active member
I never said Dart sounds like SET. In fact, I get tired of folks trying to say tube sounds like ss or vice versa. They are just different and have different traits, SETs in particular. I will say the Dart is the best SS implementation I've heard- and I have had the First Watt SIT-1s in my room.
Look at Stereophile measurements of a Cary 805 which is the poster child of distorted SET bass from the 90s- its very difficult to get an output transformer that low single-ended. This is what you want to avoid and why measurements are more important with SET than any other type of amplifier. If you read Lamm's measurements, you see how spectacular his transformers are. Almost flat to 20hz. Wyetech would be another- check out the Soundstage archives for SET reviews. I heard Lamm ML3s last weekend and it was one of the best systems I've ever heard- on Wilson X2.2s, not normally my favorite speaker. I've also owned a Almarro 318B and it was one of the most distorted amps I've heard. Sophia Electric makes some good gear, but my 845s blew up on me and I had to return them- it was the first pair and I don't think they were ready for prime time. I probably should have bought his old version with wood panels and called it a day as the Sophias had tremendous drive. I also borrowed Dehavillands- but quite frankly, despite good sound I just couldn't get over the garage built factor. They look even more awful in person.
I had a pair of 15w Quad II classics (very, very good amps properly retubed) that had considerable more bass/drive than 25 watts 845 SET. Weird, eh? It just depends on your room I guess.
I'm going to get to hear the Shindo GM70s in two weeks (I hope). I'd also say I like KR Audio gear, but it doesn't sound like traditional SET (ss input, SET output) and freaks people out sometimes. The KR 350i is the one amp I might purchase used to try out, but they are rare in the US. I've already had 15, so what's one more amp?
KeithR
Active member
and fwiw, measurements of the Allnic are readily available.
i agree with that ive heard too many times this ss amp sounds like tubes and this tube amp sound like solid state. i never understood that either. although i did say it about my manley snappers. they were anything but warm luscious tube amps. they were stiff and punchy and full of a bigger sound than i expected or heard from them in other locations. and were not what i was looking for. i figured it could be the addition of a more efficient speaker even though just 90db they were too much for my room. and i did not like the combo as much as the snapper/kef combo. although i though they did a great job on the first version of the raidho d3's. seemed to be a great match.I never said Dart sounds like SET. In fact, I get tired of folks trying to say tube sounds like ss or vice versa. They are just different and have different traits, SETs in particular. I will say the Dart is the best SS implementation I've heard- and I have had the First Watt SIT-1s in my room.
Look at Stereophile measurements of a Cary 805 which is the poster child of distorted SET bass from the 90s- its very difficult to get an output transformer that low single-ended. This is what you want to avoid and why measurements are more important with SET than any other type of amplifier. If you read Lamm's measurements, you see how spectacular his transformers are. Almost flat to 20hz. Wyetech would be another- check out the Soundstage archives for SET reviews. I heard Lamm ML3s last weekend and it was one of the best systems I've ever heard- on Wilson X2.2s, not normally my favorite speaker. I've also owned a Almarro 318B and it was one of the most distorted amps I've heard. Sophia Electric makes some good gear, but my 845s blew up on me and I had to return them- it was the first pair and I don't think they were ready for prime time. I probably should have bought his old version with wood panels and called it a day as the Sophias had tremendous drive. I also borrowed Dehavillands- but quite frankly, despite good sound I just couldn't get over the garage built factor. They look even more awful in person.
I had a pair of 15w Quad II classics (very, very good amps properly retubed) that had considerable more bass/drive than 25 watts 845 SET. Weird, eh? It just depends on your room I guess.
I'm going to get to hear the Shindo GM70s in two weeks (I hope). I'd also say I like KR Audio gear, but it doesn't sound like traditional SET (ss input, SET output) and freaks people out sometimes. The KR 350i is the one amp I might purchase used to try out, but they are rare in the US. I've already had 15, so what's one more amp?
adding the 15w carys changed everything, better control , better bass, deeper wider soundstage and the midrange to die for. then adding the sophia tubes just made all i mentioned even better.
ive heard more distortion out of 845's recently than i have 300b's. but it wasnt bass distortion it was upper mids mostly on vocals. when they were pushed hard it escalated.
never heard the sophia 845's but i have heard the 91-01's and the 91-05 integrated. i just loved both. but never had them in my house or gave them a good test. i look at measurements occasionally but mostly hear them first. then go find some measurement. not everything that measures well sounds good. and vise versa.
those 805's you mentioned from cary are what started the whole set thing. think it was early 90's like 93 id guess. and they had their issues , a good friend had a pair and did a few upgraded over the years through cary. he sold them years ago for the lamms, not sure the model he ended up with. id love to hear their ml3's i have not found any yet in my travels.
i really need to hear these raven spirits as well. id love to find a pair. but its an internet direct company in texas. my 300b journey is just beginning and carys are my first venture. amps dont last around here for more than 6 months to a year , so im already shopping, but to date these kill any push pull amp ive had ever, and they were less money than most all of them. they go back to cary soon for a few upgrades and updating and tune up. then ill see where im at. the allnic t1500 integrated is as sweet as they come , iwill probably buy one and keep the carys for awhile. then when i find the 300b's i really want sell everything and buy them.
btw it may be my ears only but i havent found the 845 that i prefer over 300b's yet.
even the kaguras which i loved and are 100x's the price of mine.
- Thread Author
- #27
Pass XA amps are tube like. VTL's are SS like. It is possible.
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haha!!! im sure its possible i just never understood it. i always thought if you wanted a tube like ss amp, buy a tube amp and if you wanted a ss sounding tube amp just buy a ss amp.
Paul
Senior Member
No disagree.
. I hear Mike's point. Sometimes it's so nice to have a SS amp with bit of tube sounds and vice versa. It's like a hybrid sounds.
Paul
Senior Member
That's why I'm having a hard time to let go of 601's 
KeithR
Active member
Paul-I still miss my 601s at times McIntosh gear just has a "rightness" to the sound.
Have you tried an ASR? Jeff Day seems to rave about that combo.
McIntosh gear just has a "rightness" to the sound.Have you tried an ASR? Jeff Day seems to rave about that combo.
KeithR
Active member
I'd like to hear Nelsons .8 version that has less negative feedback. Although the SIT is still probably his best amp.
Mark Jones
Member
Back to the RCA vs XLR debate. I will put this to bed at least in my mind next week using identical cables but with different terminations RCA and XLR. My guess is I will be struggling to hear a difference especially as the cables will be short, true some may prefer one to the other but the difference will be slim. At 30 feet no question, I don't care what amp it is, balanced XLR's all the way.
Maybe a Tenor 175S is the amp everyone should have if they can afford it. Bryston bass and control with 300b sweetness, but yes at a price.
Maybe a Tenor 175S is the amp everyone should have if they can afford it. Bryston bass and control with 300b sweetness, but yes at a price.
- Thread Author
- #34
Odd that you mention this. I'm keenly interested in the SIT-1's. Having high efficiency speakers opens up a whole new world!
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Paul
Senior Member
Paul-I still miss my 601s at times
Have you tried an ASR? Jeff Day seems to rave about that combo.
Jeff sent me an email about the ASR and I'm still searching for one.
cmalak
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2013
- Messages
- 2,304
By the way the 845 SET monos from Triode Corporation usually demoed with Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers always get rave reviews at the audio shows.
Specs:
TRX-M845 845 A class parallel single ended monaural power amplifier
Tubes: Output tube 845*2 or 211*2 , Driver 845*1 , Balance in 12AU7*1 , Pre 6SN7*1
Bias: Self bias
Output power: A class 50W at 8 ohms
Frequency response: 10Hz-50kHz(-2dB)
S/N ratio: 90dB
Total harmonic distortion: 0.1%
Input sensitivity: 0.9V
Input impedance: 100k ohm
Input terminals: RCA unbalanced*1 , XLR balanced*1(No.2 hot or No.3 hot switchable)
Output terminals: 4 ohms, 6 ohms, 8 ohms, 16 ohms; High quality banana plug capable type
NFB selector: 0dB , 3dB , 6dB
Equipped components: NEUTRIK XLR terminal (Germany)
Other functions: 845/211 bias selector, Bias check meter
Power consumption: 280W
Dimensions: W580mm*D440mm*H300mm
Weight: 58kg
Accessories: 211 tube*2 , Tube cover , AC cable , Spare fuse
Specs:
TRX-M845 845 A class parallel single ended monaural power amplifier
Tubes: Output tube 845*2 or 211*2 , Driver 845*1 , Balance in 12AU7*1 , Pre 6SN7*1
Bias: Self bias
Output power: A class 50W at 8 ohms
Frequency response: 10Hz-50kHz(-2dB)
S/N ratio: 90dB
Total harmonic distortion: 0.1%
Input sensitivity: 0.9V
Input impedance: 100k ohm
Input terminals: RCA unbalanced*1 , XLR balanced*1(No.2 hot or No.3 hot switchable)
Output terminals: 4 ohms, 6 ohms, 8 ohms, 16 ohms; High quality banana plug capable type
NFB selector: 0dB , 3dB , 6dB
Equipped components: NEUTRIK XLR terminal (Germany)
Other functions: 845/211 bias selector, Bias check meter
Power consumption: 280W
Dimensions: W580mm*D440mm*H300mm
Weight: 58kg
Accessories: 211 tube*2 , Tube cover , AC cable , Spare fuse
the professor
Well-known member
Mike
You can try adapters that convert the RCA to xlr for the 30' runs. Unless the amps are fully balanced inside thats all the amps are doing - just inside their case.
You can try adapters that convert the RCA to xlr for the 30' runs. Unless the amps are fully balanced inside thats all the amps are doing - just inside their case.
MDP
Behavior Moderator (be nice police!)
I wish you guys would speak English.........Tubes confuse me......:disbelief:
Mark Jones
Member
Hmmm... yes that is true, good point. Maybe I need to retract my statement "At 30 feet no question, I don't care what amp it is, balanced XLR's all the way."