Schiit Yggdrasil DAC Arrived

AJ Soundfield said:
You told us:

You sought your own "consensus" via glowing anecdotal subjective reviews. Same as heaped on the Yggy, as Adam indicated.
Can't have it both ways.
Both DACs have "consensus" purely subjective praise. You have one, Dan got the other.
When it comes to pure subjectivity, preferences and "consensus" varies. As in YMMV.:)

cheers,

AJ
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AJ, while sometimes seeing a bit of an argument for argument sake in your responses, this time I was looking forward to your comeback.

As a matter of fact, the way I selected my latest DAC was a bit unmethodical and ad-hoc. What I actually wanted to do is to develop an understanding of whether MQA is any good. For that purpose I first investigated the possibility of the Auralic variation and then tried it out. As it was quite good I went for the next step.

Being careful not to dismiss MQA from the get go due to the large number of nay-sayers I then looked for a way to evaluate MQA with a high quality DAC. I first tried a couple of other MQA capable DACs, but they did not convince me in PCM, so I looked further. When I came across the Nyquist I liked the sound and then tested MQA. My conclusion was that the impact of MQA on SQ varies, but when it is good, it can be really good. So, test completed and goal achieved.

But then I noticed that I did not want to give the Nyquist back as it is so good. So, it was kind of a coincidence.

That said, when the Nyquist came out I studied it and fell in love with the technical concept. But at that time I felt it was kind of unattainable for me. And I had the Meitner, which was good. Then the Meitner v2 upgrade came along and I started to ask myself whether I really wanted to pay 2K for an upgrade or try something new instead. As it was quite likely the MA-1 would never support MQA, I thought I might as well look for something different and put it up for sale. As things happen, it sold shortly before I started my MQA evaluation with the Nyquist.

Hence, my choice had absolutely nothing to do with consensus, just my ears. The only review I was aware of was the Stereophile one where Atkinson bashed it due to some ominous distortion in the inaudible band. So, it was actually the exact opposite of consensus. The glowing TAS review by Harley, TAS Product of the Year Award and the Hi-Fi+ Award came out after I already had it. But I admit, those did not make me regret my decision [emoji3].

Back to Dan’s Yggdrasil, does my different purchase decision make it somehow not an excellent choice? Absolutely not.


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Kuoppis said:
The glowing TAS review by Harley, TAS Product of the Year Award and the Hi-Fi+ Award came out after I already had it. But I admit, those did not make me regret my decision [emoji3].
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Right, no one claimed you chose to buy it because there was consensus, any more than Dan or maybe Adam. But you threw in those reviews to show there is some consensus regarding your purely subjective decision.
Just like Adam is claiming there is "consensus" regarding the Yggy as punching way above its weight...as far as purely subjective assessments go.
You then threw in a half dozen DACs you implied might be better. I could have done the exact same in your Brinkmann thread...but didn't. ;)
That's how it is with purely anecdotal subjective assessments.
 
Kuoppis said:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by adamaley
It's a great DAC and the consensus is there is nothing less than 10k that definitively beats it. Enjoy, and Happy New Year!
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Consensus between who?
- T+A DAC 8 DSD
- Auralic Vega
- PS Audio DSD
- Aqua La Scala II Optologic
- Totaldac Reference D1
- Meitner MA 1 v2
- Bricasti M1
- MSB Analog DAC
- Ayre QX-5 Twenty

Quite a few roadblocks on the way to that title, just to name a few.
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Kuoppis, when/how did you determine any of those definitively beat the Iggy, thanks.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Right, no one claimed you chose to buy it because there was consensus, any more than Dan or maybe Adam. But you threw in those reviews to show there is some consensus regarding your purely subjective decision.
Just like Adam is claiming there is "consensus" regarding the Yggy as punching way above its weight...as far as purely subjective assessments go.
You then threw in a half dozen DACs you implied might be better. I could have done the exact same in your Brinkmann thread...but didn't. ;)
That's how it is with purely anecdotal subjective assessments.
Click to expand...

I am not saying the other DACs are better, I am saying it is probably impossible to have a consensus in that competitive segment.

And in case you think the are better DACs than the Nyquist, please be my guest. Start with the Yggdrasil if you like. No-one is keeping you.


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AJ Soundfield said:
Kuoppis, when/how did you determine any of those definitively beat the Iggy, thanks.
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I have not, and I think it is impossible - either way.

If you would think before you write, you would notice that this was my exact point.


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Kuoppis said:
I am not saying the other DACs are better, I am saying it is probably impossible to have a consensus in that competitive segment.
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You need to re-read the claim, I quoted it above.

Kuoppis said:
And in case you think the are better DACs than the Nyquist, please be my guest. Start with the Yggdrasil if you like. No-one is keeping you.
Click to expand...
The Yggy might be...but I haven't had both in my system at the same time to switch between and compare real time, to make such a claim. When did you do this?
 
AJ Soundfield said:
You told us:

You sought your own "consensus" via glowing anecdotal subjective reviews. Same as heaped on the Yggy, as Adam indicated.
Can't have it both ways.
Both DACs have "consensus" purely subjective praise. You have one, Dan got the other.
When it comes to pure subjectivity, preferences and "consensus" varies. As in YMMV.:)

cheers,

AJ
Click to expand...

Doesn't "consensus" need to involve more than one party?

I'm confused.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Don't be.
Kuoppis and Adam agree that nothing under $10k definitively beats the Yggy.
Two > One.:)
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Now, this is just playing trick with words. Someone claimed "nothing under $10k", which Kuoppis thinks is over the top and after a few back and forth, you just added "definitely beats the Yggy".

If we just leave as the Yggy is a remarkable bargain that punches way above its price and has a lot of happy owners, I have no doubt we will have absolute consensus. It's the over the top claim that can never be proven or disapproved is the culprit here and I must say it's a recurring theme with many people.

BTW, I'm considering the Yggy although I'd like it in black.
 
kzhtoo said:
Now, this is just playing trick with words. Someone claimed "nothing under $10k", which Kuoppis thinks is over the top and after a few back and forth, you just added "definitely beats the Yggy".
Click to expand...

adamaley said:
It's a great DAC and the consensus is there is nothing less than 10k that definitively beats it. Enjoy, and Happy New Year!
Click to expand...
:doubtful:

kzhtoo said:
BTW, I'm considering the Yggy although I'd like it in black.
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Might sound a bit darker than the Silver but who knows? :hey:
 
Seems I misread about you adding "definitely beats the Yggy". My apology.
 
kzhtoo said:
Seems I misread about you adding "definitely beats the Yggy". My apology.
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No worries, I think slight misreads lead to most of the disagreements online.

Haha on the grey speakers balancing black components, you got it! :)

I was a bit apprehensive about the Schiit stuff initially, but I've "warmed" to them. Some of their stuff seem pretty solid. Maybe break in time? :P
Happy New Year
 
Looks like everyone had some time on their hands today.

Consensus, subjective opinion, and personal bias can be powerful influences but none of that carries the weight of direct hands-on experience with a particular audio component in your sound system. Purchasing factory direct can be intimidating, especially when a purchase decision has been colored by subjective views of others without additional proof source. There is little doubt my point of view about the Yggdrasil DAC purchase was governed to some degree by the personal testimony of other respected Schiit Audio Yggdrasil owners, Gungnir Gumby owners, and a number of positive reviews published in popular audio magazines. What eased my apprehension about purchasing the Yggdrasil DAC unheard was Schiit Audio's 15 day return policy. It's not too scary dropping $2299.00 when you have a promise to get it back if you are less than satisfied. Had it not been for that option I may have held off buying a Yggy until I had some real face time with one. It is now day seven of my 15 day return window. I can safely state that this DAC will not be returned to the factory. I believe I can also stick my neck out far enough to say I would be quite surprised to hear of anyone getting several hundred hours on their Yggdrasil and deciding to return it. With only 172 hours on mine at this point, I am heartily impressed with its performance.

All claims aside about how the Yggdrasil may stand up against competitors irrespective of price, I did not make my purchase to secure any kind of bragging rights. I bought the Yggdrasil because I needed a DAC for my new Aurender N100H music server that would satisfy my very picky nature with respect to authentic hi-end sound quality. I also wanted to satisfy my curiosity about the difference I might hear between the delta sigma DAC's I have intimate experience with and the ladder DAC, as well as the Mike Moffat designed and refined Closed-Form digital filter. The newly designed Gen 5 USB input is remarkable as well. The overall circuit topology of the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC offers several unique and ingenious electronic designs and parts choices I find fascinating. It is the dissimilarity from the norm that intrigues me.

All the positive comments in the world, or negative ones for that matter, are no substitutes for real world experience. I have been fortunate enough to have hands-on experience with quite a few high quality DAC's and have auditioned several others in passing. Listening to the Yggdrasil slowly gain its permanent voice is not my first cup of tea. Consequently I am confident I can recognize the qualities I wish to be present from a DAC in my system. Whether the Yggdrasil DAC can go head to head with pricier DAC's or outperform cheaper DAC's is not my concern. I want a DAC that simply steps out of the way of the digits and leaves nothing but music in its path. What I have determined to this point is the $2299.00 price for the Yggdrasil is an absolute bargain. I am equally positive their is additional performance to be gained as the break-in progresses.
 
jdandy said:
Looks like everyone had some time on their hands today.

Consensus, subjective opinion, and personal bias can be powerful influences but none of that carries the weight of direct hands-on experience with a particular audio component in your sound system. Purchasing factory direct can be intimidating, especially when a purchase decision has been colored by subjective views of others without additional proof source. There is little doubt my point of view about the Yggdrasil DAC purchase was governed to some degree by the personal testimony of other Schiit Audio Yggdrasil owners, Gungnir Gumby owners, and a number of positive reviews published in respected audio magazines. What eased my apprehension about purchasing the Yggdrasil DAC unheard was Schiit Audio's 15 day return policy. It's not too scary dropping $2300.00 when you have a promise to get it back if you are anything less than satisfied. Had it not been for that option I may have held off buying a Yggy until I had some real face time with one. It is now day seven of my 15 day return window. I can safely state that this DAC will not be returned to the factory. I believe I can also stick my neck out far enough to say I would be quite surprised to hear of anyone getting several hundred hours on their Yggdrasil and deciding to return it. With only 146 hours on mine I am heartily impressed with its performance.

All claims aside about how the Yggdrasil may stand up against competitors irrespective of price, I did not make my purchase to secure boasting rights. I bought the Yggdrasil because I needed a DAC for my new Aurender N100H music server that would satisfy my picky nature with respect to authentic sound quality. I also wanted to satisfy my curiosity about the difference I might hear between the delta sigma DAC's I have intimate experience with and the ladder DAC and the Mike Moffat designed and refined Closed-Form digital filter. The overall circuit topology of the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC offers several unique and ingenious electronic designs and parts decisions I find fascinating. It is the dissimilarity from the norm I find intriguing.
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The only thing that matters is that you enjoy it, as you have it in your system. Everything else is just noise.

Looks look like you’re taking the same burn-in approach as described in the TAS review, except that you’re enjoying it already now. What was interesting in the review was that Harley said it is not impressive for the price. Rather than it is great in absolute terms, period.

And Harley compared it to the 20K Berkeley Ref II, impressive.

Enjoy it!


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jdandy said:
.... I also wanted to satisfy my curiosity about the difference I might hear between the delta sigma DAC's I have intimate experience with and the ladder DAC and the Mike Moffat designed and refined Closed-Form digital filter. The overall circuit topology of the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC offers several unique and ingenious electronic designs and parts decisions I find fascinating. It is the dissimilarity from the norm I find intriguing.
Click to expand...

This is where subjectivity comes in. I've heard a Chord Dave myself, and at $120000, it doesn't beat the Yggy (IMO). I couldn't get over the Delta Sigma edginess albeit less so than in most DACs of that kind. It is worth noting that my Yggy is served by an LPS-1 powered Microrendu + Mutec MC3+ converting to AES and reclocking. The Dave wasn't, however it's creator states its USB is immune to any hash, so I figure it was a fair comparison. I will stand forward and rephrase my earlier statement so that we can all move on and spend some time with our families.

Instead of:
"It's a great DAC and the consensus is there is nothing less than 10k that definitively beats it"

Let's go with:
"It's a great DAC and there is no consensus that anything less than 10k definitively beats it"
 
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