Reproduce LIVE music?

[MikeCh]

Maybe I'm alone in this regard, but I don't care if music played back in my setups sound either like I'm at a live show or if the musicians are playing in my room. I wouldn't be able to stand the volume of a live performance all the time anyway.

I appreciate the way my systems sound, the way they interact in my rooms and the detail they convey (at all volume levels)....full well knowing that it's a recording and not "live".

Why is there such a hangup with audiophiles of trying to reproduce a live venue / show / performance in their homes anyway? If I want a live performance, I'll go see one.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

Let's turn it around. Why the hang up that the recording shouldn't be a facsimile of the original recording session? Don't you think the producer/recording engineer on the better recordings aims for recreating the live event in your room? They most certainly do. Most of all, when you get it right, the live feeling brings the appreciation of the music to another level and to life.

For instance, a classical quartet should sound close up because who goes to a concert and sits in Row Z. Same but opposite for an orchestra. Most don't like row D but it shouldn't sound like the back of the hall either.

As far as the loudness. The issue with home systems isn't so much the volume but distortion.

 

[MikeCh]

Let's turn it around. Why the hang up that the recording shouldn't be a facsimile of the original recording session? Don't you think the producer/recording engineer on the better recordings aims for recreating the live event in your room? They most certainly do. Most of all, when you get it right, the live feeling brings the appreciation of the music to another level and to life.

For instance, a classical quartet should sound close up because who goes to a concert and sits in Row Z. Same but opposite for an orchestra. Most don't like row D but it shouldn't sound like the back of the hall either.

As far as the loudness. The issue with home systems isn't so much the volume but distortion.

There's no hangup here regarding the fact that a recording shouldn't be a facsimile of the original recording session (live or studio). However, as has been stated in many audio circles since the dawn of time, "its near impossible to exactly reproduce a live musical performance for dynamics and scale with HiFi playback equipment in the home". As such, it appears a futile attempt that many audiophiles can't seem to get over.

I'm not saying that there have never been recordings that when played back on a stereo system (mine included) don't bring the music to life as if you were there listening live (and those moments are great I agree), but these instances are not the majority. My guess is they are not the majority for anyone here either. Here's but two examples of what I'm talking about regarding the disparity between live performances and playback of same (one being your own comments):

http://audioshark.org/general-audio-discussion-15/use-word-neutral-audio-6622-page5.html#post111904
http://audioshark.org/general-audio-discussion-15/use-word-neutral-audio-6622-page5.html#post111955

Perhaps the best type of music to reproduce in proper scale in a home stereo system would be that of a classical quartet or solo piano, etc. Other than that, I can't say that I've heard the equivalent of a Depeche Mode show at Red Rocks Amphitheater, a symphony playing at Ford Amphitheater, Tony Furtado playing at a Denver bar, etc. being reproduced on a home system of any kind to have it sound the same as the actual venue.

I don't know where you're going with the volume vs. distortion comment. Please explain what you mean.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

So in other words, throw the baby out with the bath water if you only get 70% of the dynamics. I get some pretty good dynamics with my analog rigs. Seems kinda silly.

It's also not fair to talk about live rock, amplifier music because you have no idea how the guy at the board EQ'd the concert. There's no way in hell that Mick Feetwood's drums are flat in concert.

Problem also is when we're talking about dynamics are the mikes, the recording medium, the rolling off of the low frequencies, etc. Remenber a couple of years ago when Doug Sax talked about how difficult it was to record Kodo Drummers? At the drum head, the SPL was around 135 dB; not too many mikes can handle that without disintegrating.

 

[MikeCh]

So in other words, throw the baby out with the bath water if you only get 70% of the dynamics.

That's not what I said, don't be ridiculous. I'm not (and others aren't) going to stop enjoying music on my/our setups just because so many recordings don't sound 100%-live or meet some audiophile seal of approval for recording quality.

I get some pretty good dynamics with my analog rigs. Seems kinda silly.

So do I and that's what keeps me interested in listening to music with my playback gear.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

Mike what I'm trying to say is that an audio system is a gateway drug. You can hear music anytime and in relatively good fidelity. There are no absolutes, only relatives. You can hear artists that might never visit your town or city. You can hear artists long gone. That gateway as JGH said, allows us on occassion a glimpse of the real thing!

 

[MikeCh]

Mike what I'm trying to say is that an audio system is a gateway drug. You can hear music anytime and in relatively good fidelity. There are no absolutes, only relatives. You can hear artists that might never visit your town or city. You can hear artists long gone. That gateway as JGH said, allows us on occassion a glimpse of the real thing!

I agree 100% with what you've written here....especially the gateway drug part.

 

[Tomelex]

Maybe I'm alone in this regard, but I don't care if music played back in my setups sound either like I'm at a live show or if the musicians are playing in my room. I wouldn't be able to stand the volume of a live performance all the time anyway.

I appreciate the way my systems sound, the way they interact in my rooms and the detail they convey (at all volume levels)....full well knowing that it's a recording and not "live".

Why is there such a hangup with audiophiles of trying to reproduce a live venue / show / performance in their homes anyway? If I want a live performance, I'll go see one.

I think its a dream that has been propogated by dealers and reviewers and passed along into audio lore, such as the absolute sound as a reference idea. Trying to make a couple of speakers provide the 3 dimensional sound you actually hear at a live unamplified event is wrong
right off from a technical standpoint.

It would be great to reproduce that event, at a particular spot that you would consider the best to be sitting in, but that means a whole different concept than two channel audio.

For some reason, some audiophiles, say that the real event has been brought into their listening rooms, and you used to see it mentioned a lot on a lot of sites with less mature "audiophiles", and I say less mature because I would suspect that any one who claims to love audio and classify themselves as an audiophile "should" be able to distinguish between two speakers and a real event....

 

[mep]

Tom, if you are going to bother to half-way list your gear, why not really list it and tell people what it is that you are listening to? That way when you make the same statements over and over and over and over again like you have done and continue to do on another forum, they will understand the basis for the your statements.

On AS, we actually have people who enjoy listening to stereo and don't spend every waking hour trying to beat people over the head that stereo can't possibly sound good.

 

[Tomelex]

Tom, if you are going to bother to half-way list your gear, why not really list it and tell people what it is that you are listening to? That way when you make the same statements over and over and over and over again like you have done and continue to do on another forum, they will understand the basis for the your statements.

On AS, we actually have people who enjoy listening to stereo and don't spend every waking hour trying to beat people over the head that stereo can't possibly sound good.

I am here to participate in threads that interest me and if there is a problem for some folks then there is a button for that so all should be well for everyone.

 

[mep]

Yamaha turntable, Hafler DH-110 preamp, a pair of Hafler DH-220 amps bridged, and a pair of old JBL speakers. This system should be posted under the thread "All of my Gear is Vintage." It really does help people understand the comments you make about how deficient stereo sounds when they understand what gear you are listening to. If you were proud of your gear, you would actually list what it is. If your not proud of your gear, you just mention some specs and hope it impresses some people. Better yet, don't mention your system at all if you are trying to keep it secret.

 

[Tomelex]

Yamaha turntable, Hafler DH-110 preamp, a pair of Hafler DH-220 amps bridged, and a pair of old JBL speakers. This system should be posted under the thread "All of my Gear is Vintage." It really does help people understand the comments you make about how deficient stereo sounds when they understand what gear you are listening to. If you were proud of your gear, you would actually list what it is. If your not proud of your gear, you just mention some specs and hope it impresses some people. Better yet, don't mention your system at all if you are trying to keep it secret.

Well, while you listed most of my gear, there are things you apparently forgot, which is good for now. And specifications are as good as most of the gear now in use, and it is meticulously maintained and modified (not much modification was required really). In any case, at this point in the game, the gear make model or year is not what it is all about.....atleast for me. Is there anything else you can provide that is on topic in this thread?

There is no way I can tell what someones system sounds like by the choice of gear they have assembled, apparently some can.

 

[Mechnutt]

I like to think that the idea of posting or listing what gear you have is because people are interested in seeing what other members are using. Some times it sparks conversion or interest of other members. I certainly started with some very good Van Alstine gear that I learned about on forums and ended up with a Pass amp and BAT preamp by seeing what other people were using and asking questions. I like to see what people are using, new or old gear as I have an interest in vintage gear as you can see below.

I am sure your system sounds great. I was a big fan of Hafler.

Larry

 

[mep]

Well, while you listed most of my gear, there are things you apparently forgot, which is good for now. And specifications are as good as most of the gear now in use, and it is meticulously maintained and modified (not much modification was required really). In any case, at this point in the game, the gear make model or year is not what it is all about.....atleast for me. Is there anything else you can provide that is on topic in this thread?

There is no way I can tell what someones system sounds like by the choice of gear they have assembled, apparently some can.

I can tell what it sounds like when I used to own a piece of the same gear many years ago (DH-220) or I have spent many hours over many listening sessions listening to it in a friend's system (DH-110).

 

[Tomelex]

I like to think that the idea of posting or listing what gear you have is because people are interested in seeing what other members are using. Some times it sparks conversion or interest of other members. I certainly started with some very good Van Alstine gear that I learned about on forums and ended up with a Pass amp and BAT preamp by seeing what other people were using and asking questions. I like to see what people are using, new or old gear as I have an interest in vintage gear as you can see below.

I am sure your system sounds great. I was a big fan of Hafler.

Larry

Thanks, it sounds good to me and those who have heard it. I guess we have all by now heard lots (maybe a hundred in my case by now) of systems and I never heard a system that sounded bad, just different. Audio is such a personal thing, and I guess that's why there are hundreds of "reference" components out there, and thousands of combinations of components making up folks systems, its just incredible when you think about it. Its funny, a system I heard when I was about 11 years old, it was tube gear, and it was a console, with a couple of big speakers inside, mono, and it had all these buttons you could push, one showed the drum, one showed the guitar, one showed the trumpet, etc, and you could push those buttons to enhance certain instruments, and it had tone controls as well, and that darn thing, I wish I could find it now, it simply showed me at that age what could be heard with gear that was made for listening and adjusting to suit ones own ears. It was so damn cool. That started me on the road, and I am happy to say not the audio road to hell, but the road that provides me satisfaction, and that means operating my system within its best parameters, low volume and low distortion and clarity is where it shines IMO. It blooms at about one watt power, which is its sweet spot in more ways than one with pretty high sensitivity speakers, getting me up to about 90db which is plenty loud when I want it.