Regen, Wow!
- Thread starter Mechnutt
- Start date
FlexibleAudio
Member
Pretty much the point I have been trying to make regarding i2s. As others point out, some dacs, don't use chips (filter only dsd for example), and, as such, don't use i2s which leaves them tied to a usb signal path with its noisy packet ridden nature and its incumbent yucky sonic side effects. I would guess this is largely what you are hearing. But please remember I am not an expert and only understand things at a superficial level. I am doing my best to learn at my own pace with the help of others.
FlexibleAudio
Member
Duplicate......
Just cant let it go can ya? LoL
Which Lampi owner complains of its DSD being yucky sounding, even as it ONLY uses USB for DSD? Also, why do you think I have been pointing out from the start that Corning plus Regen green with stock smps is a a clear winner in my setup? Implementation, synergy, tweaking, etc can all make appreciable differences. That is why some Lampi owners say no difference with the Regen and a few even said it was WORSE.
Finally didnt Mike/Ted and a few others point out that there was no night and day difference between the Spdif and the i2s output of the SSR? I wonder why, since SPDIF is so very poor in your opinion? I finally wonder why many acclaim the sound of the Berk USB/Spdif converter?
Many ways to skin a cat and there is no single magic bullet. Also, you cant always generalize.
However, as you say you are learning at your own pace, so how can I complain about that? I am clearly NOT an expert on these matters, just another opinion in the wind. Afterall, I really have no frame of reference for what good sound is, as the best system I have demoed are only costing about $1m retail, so far too low end me make any kind of serious judgement. Those manufacterers show rooms are clearly not anything to be taken seriously. LoL
Enjoy your MSB, if it makes you happy, then I am happy for you. I will continue to enjoy my frequency truncated, noisy, colored, gulity pleasure flawed Dac. You like you food bland and then salt an peppered to taste, i like it well seasoned before being cooked. LoL
This is not an invitation for a flame war, just yanking back your chain mildly for your mild yank at me above. Hopefully you have cooled off now and have gotten back to normal.
Which Lampi owner complains of its DSD being yucky sounding, even as it ONLY uses USB for DSD? Also, why do you think I have been pointing out from the start that Corning plus Regen green with stock smps is a a clear winner in my setup? Implementation, synergy, tweaking, etc can all make appreciable differences. That is why some Lampi owners say no difference with the Regen and a few even said it was WORSE.
Finally didnt Mike/Ted and a few others point out that there was no night and day difference between the Spdif and the i2s output of the SSR? I wonder why, since SPDIF is so very poor in your opinion? I finally wonder why many acclaim the sound of the Berk USB/Spdif converter?
Many ways to skin a cat and there is no single magic bullet. Also, you cant always generalize.
However, as you say you are learning at your own pace, so how can I complain about that? I am clearly NOT an expert on these matters, just another opinion in the wind. Afterall, I really have no frame of reference for what good sound is, as the best system I have demoed are only costing about $1m retail, so far too low end me make any kind of serious judgement. Those manufacterers show rooms are clearly not anything to be taken seriously. LoL
Enjoy your MSB, if it makes you happy, then I am happy for you. I will continue to enjoy my frequency truncated, noisy, colored, gulity pleasure flawed Dac. You like you food bland and then salt an peppered to taste, i like it well seasoned before being cooked. LoL
This is not an invitation for a flame war, just yanking back your chain mildly for your mild yank at me above. Hopefully you have cooled off now and have gotten back to normal.
Hei Janke
Have you received the Jitterbugs? The availability says its in stock, but also ready for Pre-order due september….
Tommy
FlexibleAudio
Member
Normy, Regardless of what you think I come to forums for two reasons: to learn from smart people or help others do the same. Sometimes that involves questioning peoples comments to confirm accuracy so either I learn something or the record is clarified so others can learn something. Sometimes people get a little fussy when going through this process; including the people who have to watch it. Typically the more a person has to be questioned the rougher the process, but that's ok as long as things are cleared up. I have no other purpose here. This absolutely includes my views and understandings. If you or anyone else can help me, I am all ears.
I was referring to the inherent SQ effects of uncontrolled packet noise in usb connections with respect to the term "yucky". Not to a specific dac that may or may not have a noise floor so high you can't hear them. My reference to chip-less architecture was simply a confirmation of your point, namely that it is unable to use a protocol designed for inter-chip signal conveyance (i.e., i2s) which avoids this whole noise problem from its inception.
I think you are aware of these facts but you continue to demonstrate a tendency toward non sequiturs. I presume this is for sport, but it makes the process more tedious.
Of course a well designed spidf sounds great. I did not say a "spidf is so very poor". I said:"many (including me) consider the buffering or phase lock loop required to optimize the time domain a bigger flaw than a noisy usb connection." With a lot of extra effort to manage jitter in the dac (as opposed to before it gets there) it can sound as good as usb (or better) and can approach i2s. I ranked it below usb in general (not related to a specific design) only because I think an asynchronous clock synch is generally superior to its methods.
No you should only generalize in general conversations. This started with your response that the regen would improve "all usb" dacs. A statement doesn't get more general. I tried to make a simple clarification that this is only true if the usb dacs don't have an i2s. Since then you have taken me on a journey of non sequiturs, explained a lot about how singular your personal experiences in audio are, established that I am a slow learning neophyte, but refused to comment specifically about where I am wrong. If you could explain this to me, I could learn something meaningful from your singularity. That's what I am here to accomplish.
A note to my critics:
I am not here for flames. I am here to learn. I also, however, care a lot about the integrity of this forum. If we are so "friendly" we can never have in intelligent discourse to clarify or correct a members posts then the average quality of information available will suffer. I do not think this is a good thing. If comments do not need to meet a minimum standard because they can not be challenged I think our membership will gradually migrate to places where the average value is higher than we provide. Evaluating the reasoning behind disagreements is our de facto Quality Control Department and with out it our quality will suffer. I am NOT a proponent of allowing the kind of personal confrontation that occurs on other forums but the pendulum swinging to far the other way can undermine what imo is our primary purpose here.
FlexibleAudio
Member
Flex-P, I actually said "Any USB interface.". Go back and read post #27 to confirm for yourself.
I spoke about USB interface only meaning whether the Dac has another interface or not. In fact, I was not even talking about the Dac, but rather the source. The poster mentioned 1-2 sources and 1-2 Dacs. If you have a USB source, does the Regen help or not…that is the question. The answer was given by 2 people before you posted and its a resounding YES, in the vast majority of cases…synergy taken into account of course.
If you had said, "IF the DAC had an i2s interface, it MAY be better to look to that for potentially better performance", I would not have made a comment. Your post…go back and read it ,was very confusing in the context of the initial question.
However, the ensuing banter fleshed out your intent eventually and hence I said all was well.
I spoke about USB interface only meaning whether the Dac has another interface or not. In fact, I was not even talking about the Dac, but rather the source. The poster mentioned 1-2 sources and 1-2 Dacs. If you have a USB source, does the Regen help or not…that is the question. The answer was given by 2 people before you posted and its a resounding YES, in the vast majority of cases…synergy taken into account of course.
If you had said, "IF the DAC had an i2s interface, it MAY be better to look to that for potentially better performance", I would not have made a comment. Your post…go back and read it ,was very confusing in the context of the initial question.
However, the ensuing banter fleshed out your intent eventually and hence I said all was well.
It's a new area benefiting from recent research/experimentation.
Lots of trial and error experimentation based on a working hypothesis and JS expereince in the communications industry. None of this is "proven" yet, but empirical evidence is building more and more every day and high speed signalling industry already use similar measures for their mission critical infrastructure. Audio is piggy-backing via Uptone and it seems to be paying off nicely. Uptone are the only "experts" in this very specialist emerging area and they have several audio grenades they plan to toss to the market in the coming months. They plan to blow up old paradigms.
FlexibleAudio
Member
To me, the question was about the connection between a dac and source not as you indicate in your last post. I fail to see what is confusing about my post within the context of the question, but thats me. If a dac has both a usb input and a i2s input the regen is not relevant because even with the regen the usb input is inferior to the i2s unless you can enlighten me to the contrary. I am sorry if that was not clear.
Gotta call BS on the whole product. Why do I need my USB data signal completely reconstructed? And keep in mind we are taking about a digital data stream here which is simple binary data which in th first place is hard to get wrong. But more importantly, why do I care about jitter when I have an asynch DAC? Asynchronous DACs don't use the senders clock so they should be impervious to source jitter. Although I'm sure someone will tell me why it's not. But I see no reason why this $175 unit should be able to create a purer USB data stream than my Aurender USB output. In fact, seems like a bad idea to stick something else in the chain. Might introduce jitter, lol. 
Does anyone believe in placebo? I'm pretty sure if we started a rumor that high end systems sound better when facing true magnetic north that we'd get true believers that are able to achieve yet one step higher on the apparently infinite ladder of sonic improvements.
Does anyone believe in placebo? I'm pretty sure if we started a rumor that high end systems sound better when facing true magnetic north that we'd get true believers that are able to achieve yet one step higher on the apparently infinite ladder of sonic improvements.
FlexibleAudio
Member
Alright Normy that one is kinda a stretch. There are more usb noise solutions on the market from established designers than you can shake a stick at. Off the top of my head, here are three that people feel to a pretty good job. Different approaches but all address the same problem with great success.
Playback Designs USB-X box with optical outputs
Berkeley Alpha USB
MSB Quad USB2
Does the Aurender streamer have 12s output? Does wither of those Dacs have 12s input? Unless they do, i am sure you see my point now.
The poster clearly wanted to know if the Regen would improve his USB connection.
Flexy, they dont address directly the SI improvement intent. You know JS to communicate with, so go ask him. It is his postulation and to be frank he is the only one talking about this very area of concern.
Certainly people have been trying to improve USB, but in other ways.
Somehow communication gets derailed when it passes between us. You never seem to fully get what I say and it seems you feel the same way about me…LoL
Off the top of my head, only HiFi AL. Not sure if Miguelito, Priaptor or Jimmypowder do.
- Thread Author
- #79
Ok, now to change the subject a little. Is any one using an IFI Ipower psu with their Regen? I have been thinking about buying one.
iFi iPower Outboard Supply at Music Direct
iFi iPower Outboard Supply at Music Direct
Steve plans to do just that. I recall reading both positive and negative opinions on that combo.
Quite frankly, I just got in a $53 delivered 9v Chinese LPSU (with LED readout), so not sure if I would bother going the iPower route. When I get a chance to test the lpsu, I will let you know…I can also compare to my BoTWs squeezeupgrade and Hynes SR3 at 12v.
Quite frankly, I just got in a $53 delivered 9v Chinese LPSU (with LED readout), so not sure if I would bother going the iPower route. When I get a chance to test the lpsu, I will let you know…I can also compare to my BoTWs squeezeupgrade and Hynes SR3 at 12v.