Right, sorry I stepped into the middle of things.
Regen, Wow!
- Thread starter Mechnutt
- Start date
No John, your input was welcome. thanks.
Its not a fight in my views, just a clarification for everyone to understand. If Flex-P can get it wrong after clearly spending decent time looking into it, I guess its not so easy to grasp the whole concept after all.
Its not a fight in my views, just a clarification for everyone to understand. If Flex-P can get it wrong after clearly spending decent time looking into it, I guess its not so easy to grasp the whole concept after all.
FlexibleAudio
Member
Thanks jkenny. That was sure easy. It is refreshing to have someone who knows there stuff answer a simple question in a straightforward manner.
FlexibleAudio
Member
Jkenny,
The following statement from Alex made it sound like the regen clock is acting like an "audio clock" in a usb to spidf converter that outputs with a synchronized audio clock. This is what confused me.
"It is called “REGEN” since it completely REGENerates the data signals that cables are messing up—it’s not just a re-clocking. Because it uses clean power and a low jitter clock, the output of the hub has low noise and low jitter."
Are we getting lost in the details?
It either works and makes a positive difference or it doesn't.
In my system, it made a difference.
It either works and makes a positive difference or it doesn't.
In my system, it made a difference.
Mike, I appreciate your sentiment. There is a danger of analysis-paralysis....I am a financial analyst after all, LoL
However, as someone who did a deep dive into this months ago and clarified stuff DIRECTLY with the Principals back then, I dont like to see material misrepresentations based on profound misunderstandings. The products deserves a fair shake.
I have posted enough info for people to read, digest ad make up their own minds and afterall in this overpriced hobby, its ddelightful to see tangible improvements from tweaks that are relatively cheap.
However, as someone who did a deep dive into this months ago and clarified stuff DIRECTLY with the Principals back then, I dont like to see material misrepresentations based on profound misunderstandings. The products deserves a fair shake.
I have posted enough info for people to read, digest ad make up their own minds and afterall in this overpriced hobby, its ddelightful to see tangible improvements from tweaks that are relatively cheap.
This reminds me of the sports writer who was looking for some indepth analytical, deep in thought answer when he asked golfer Seve Ballesteros at the 1990 Masters how he managed to four putt the 16th green. Seve replied, "I miss, I miss, I miss, I make. Next question?"
Right, yea, I forgot about that aspect - the timing of packets is important & I think the term "packet jitter" has been adopted to any mistiming.
Now before anybody takes this concept too literally & suggests that "packet jitter" is meaningless as the data is read into a buffer & clocked out of this buffer by an independent, locally situated, audio clock - let's look at the underlying operational principle of the Regen. It's main function is to improve the signal integrity (SI) of the USB signal just before it enters the USB audio device. The reason being that SI of the USB stream which is compromised in any way will cause extra work to be done by the USB PHY (the part of the USB receiver that handles the electrical signals & extracts a signal of a standardised quality from it).
This compromising of the SI can occur in many different ways, from many different sources - slight mistimings of the packets is one such way. The clock in the Regen is intended to rectify any mistimings while the USB signal is being regenerated/repacketised for sending onwards
FlexibleAudio
Member
Again, thanks for the straightforward answer. You clearly show the difference between someone who understands the issues at their core and someone who can only cut and paste. Much appreciated.
Haha, good one, yes
Whatever! I am just grateful for small mercies...at least you understand the fundamentals of how async works now. No wonder you could not grasp what I was saying all along. I suspected as much...as what you were saying was so far off course you had my head spinning.
FlexibleAudio
Member
Ya Mike I never questioned that the regen works to fix packet noise problems. Go back to my original posts above. I simply had a question, (not a shoot from the hip proclamation as fact that some are prone to make) about how the public information could be interpreted related to the clock function and its implications on the regens possible limitations for SQ improvement. To some of us these things matter. We come to forums to attempt to get high value information on such things. The thread is about the regen after all.
My other purpose is always to flesh out the accuracy of comments from folks that tend to make questionable posts so our community can make judgments about whether they can take that persons comments as gospel or with a grain of salt. Whether you look at this thread or others, the record is getting laid down pretty clearly in this regard.
Paul
Senior Member
Ok, Just ordered and wont be ready til September ....
Not all of it, part of it (the part related to PDN and the PHY).
The remaining part is related to the protocol engine and the MAC side, and this has been bugging me ever since I saw it on a DIY probe circuit and a software scope with an experimental USB cable I am toying with.
This is a more than two year old joke . More than two years ago I owned a ps audio pwdmkii . I never liked ot form the day I owned it.
There was afew dacs I owned I did not like . At the time two companies made USB converters , I bought both of them. One the audiophileo ap1/PP AND THE SECOND THE OFFRAMP 5 loaded .these two devices changed digital audio with every dsc I used . Only the msb stack I bought did not need them . From there better music servers were the next level of improvement . What bothers me most of the article you attached above is the fact , Iosted many times in there forums of there virtues with little interest nor even an agreement of its improvement .
This is a dumb game at best of how year later it now comes to mind there can be better what sick joke .
Lastly inordred a up tone REGEN and will see if it improves things compared to a good server and then with a server .
The three USB converters I have and tried with two fpga dacs made things worse on both of them , I asked everyone I could including the dac makers and the device makers only ted B of computor audiophile gave me answer that made any sense .
There was afew dacs I owned I did not like . At the time two companies made USB converters , I bought both of them. One the audiophileo ap1/PP AND THE SECOND THE OFFRAMP 5 loaded .these two devices changed digital audio with every dsc I used . Only the msb stack I bought did not need them . From there better music servers were the next level of improvement . What bothers me most of the article you attached above is the fact , Iosted many times in there forums of there virtues with little interest nor even an agreement of its improvement .
This is a dumb game at best of how year later it now comes to mind there can be better what sick joke .
Lastly inordred a up tone REGEN and will see if it improves things compared to a good server and then with a server .
The three USB converters I have and tried with two fpga dacs made things worse on both of them , I asked everyone I could including the dac makers and the device makers only ted B of computor audiophile gave me answer that made any sense .
- Thread Author
- #139
I read that PS audio post about the Regen not working with the Hugo. I first heard the Regen on a Hugo and there was a very noticeable improvement in sound. It is clearly system dependent.
In my system paired with my Luxman DAC it sounds great. I also plan on trying a Jitter bug with the Regen. Just a side note here. I just bought a new Dell laptop with an I-7 and music sounds better than with my older HP laptop (both are running Windows 8.1) using a fast I-3 at 2.4gHz. There is more bass and better dynamic's.
In my system paired with my Luxman DAC it sounds great. I also plan on trying a Jitter bug with the Regen. Just a side note here. I just bought a new Dell laptop with an I-7 and music sounds better than with my older HP laptop (both are running Windows 8.1) using a fast I-3 at 2.4gHz. There is more bass and better dynamic's.
No no. Not what I meant.
I have the Corning use optical cable. It's does help but not with my server that's all.
The regen is indeed a good product and cheaper than a sever. I do plan to try one with it. The Hugo and ds that did not improve was with my off ramp 5 and the ap1 /pp.
I have not tied the regen as yet I do not have one.
My argument is this type of product is more than 2 years old closer to 4 but again almost with a try and it's cheap. Now what this does compared to others seems to be different so it's worth a try for sure. I do have a buddy who I trust and claims it works. I just do not think it's needed with a server that's all