Ref5 SE vs Ref 10 query...

Bobvin

Bobvin

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The day is approaching I will be getting my new gears. I started with the idea of keeping Einstein phono, and getting Ref250s and Ref 5SE, then decided instead to go with Ref Phono, 5SE, and Ref75.

But as I consider further, the Ref5 SE is getting a little long in the tooth, and the Ref10 is clearly the replacement. I've heard, but not auditioned the Ref10 (I never imagined being able to go there $$!)

Is it vastly superior to Ref 5se? Is the Ref10 so good as to warrant postponement of the Ref Phono?

Finally, does the Ref10 use the Teflon caps? I read somewhere ARC was moving away from those wonderful caps that have made their latest Ref components so amazing?
 
Bob, there's the 40th. Anniversary Edition as well... Decisions, decisions.

arc_reference_anniversary.jpg
 
A used ref 40 (I own one and it's end of the road for me) is less expensive and was the last one along with 5se to use Teflon caps. Someone told me its because the good supply of Teflon caps had become too scarce and expensive - I am sure ARC will say its because they found a way to make it sound better without Teflon. Me? I'm a Teflon cap fan.
 
I had the REF10, its terrific, but pure numbers wise, I would get the REF5SE and spend your dollars elsewhere in your system. Also, the REF5SE only takes up one slot in your rack instead of two and is a little easier on tube replacement.
 
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I spent twice as much on my preamp than I did on speakers. I also spent 2 1/2 times more than my mono amps. For me whatever takes your signal & turns it into where it needs to go, it better be good, otherwise you will miss out on a lot of whatever you bought. If this doesn't ring true, how much music have you bought lately, "Too much of a good thing hasn't been found".
If we're talking tubes. I've got a huge gandering towards Purist Audio Design in the last twelve months, these guys do some really smart things for what I look for in a preamp
 
sharkmouth said:
I spent twice as much on my preamp than I did on speakers. I also spent 2 1/2 times more than my mono amps. For me whatever takes your signal & turns it into where it needs to go, it better be good, otherwise you will miss out on a lot of whatever you bought. If this doesn't ring true, how much music have you bought lately, "Too much of a good thing hasn't been found".
If we're talking tubes. I've got a huge gandering towards Purist Audio Design in the last twelve months, these guys do some really smart things for what I look for in a preamp
Click to expand...

This makes a LOT of sense to me, thanks for posting!
 
The 5se and the 75 sound is outstanding. Yes the 10 is better but at 2.5 times the price.
 
Dpod4 said:
A used ref 40 (I own one and it's end of the road for me) is less expensive and was the last one along with 5se to use Teflon caps. Someone told me its because the good supply of Teflon caps had become too scarce and expensive - I am sure ARC will say its because they found a way to make it sound better without Teflon. Me? I'm a Teflon cap fan.
Click to expand...

Are you saying the Teflon caps are too expensive for ARC , yet the ref 10 sells for 30k?

Hmmm
 
sharkmouth said:
I spent twice as much on my preamp than I did on speakers. I also spent 2 1/2 times more than my mono amps. For me whatever takes your signal & turns it into where it needs to go, it better be good, otherwise you will miss out on a lot of whatever you bought. If this doesn't ring true, how much music have you bought lately, "Too much of a good thing hasn't been found".
If we're talking tubes. I've got a huge gandering towards Purist Audio Design in the last twelve months, these guys do some really smart things for what I look for in a preamp
Click to expand...

I could not agree more with this logic. I think sometime this is one of the often overlooked aspects of system design.

To my mind, a great preamp can make a good amp or a good set of speakers sound above their level, but great amps and great speakers don't bring this improvement to the front end of the chain; at least to the same degree. In my view, how you handle the signal in its childhood is absolutely the key to achieving the best sound for a given budget and should be the heart of the system; be it the preamp, phono stage, etc.

In other words, garbage-in-garbage-out is hard to avoid. Perfectly amplifying a distorted electrical signal with an exceptional amp and then perfectly converting it to distorted sound waves through exceptional transducers always seemed a bit back words to me. Whether the ARC gear is to your liking and whether the value of the Ref 10 relative to the Ref 5 SE is a good economic decision is, of course, your decision to make; but there is little question in my mind that through the Ref 10 you will be showing the amplifiers less distortion and a lower noise floor and benefiting from all of the wonderful sonic attributes that ride with these traits.
 
I have the REF10 and REF 250. I had the REF3 before which I liked better than the 5. I find this combination to be worth the money to me, I went all in as last system before I retire. Each reiteration gets better and I have not looked back. I also looked at the REF75 and decided against it. I am running 801SIII with north reeks and the power needles move pretty good. I think these speakers require the higher power.
 
Germzapper said:
I have the REF10 and REF 250. I had the REF3 before which I liked better than the 5. I find this combination to be worth the money to me, I went all in as last system before I retire. Each reiteration gets better and I have not looked back. I also looked at the REF75 and decided against it. I am running 801SIII with north reeks and the power needles move pretty good. I think these speakers require the higher power.
Click to expand...

Welcome!!
BIENVENIDO !!!

Like your gear setup

I Love ARC

:D
 
FlexibleAudio said:
I could not agree more with this logic. I think sometime this is one of the often overlooked aspects of system design.

To my mind, a great preamp can make a good amp or a good set of speakers sound above their level, but great amps and great speakers don't bring this improvement to the front end of the chain; at least to the same degree. In my view, how you handle the signal in its childhood is absolutely the key to achieving the best sound for a given budget and should be the heart of the system; be it the preamp, phono stage, etc.

In other words, garbage-in-garbage-out is hard to avoid. Perfectly amplifying a distorted electrical signal with an exceptional amp and then perfectly converting it to distorted sound waves through exceptional transducers always seemed a bit back words to me. Whether the ARC gear is to your liking and whether the value of the Ref 10 relative to the Ref 5 SE is a good economic decision is, of course, your decision to make; but there is little question in my mind that through the Ref 10 you will be showing the amplifiers less distortion and a lower noise floor and benefiting from all of the wonderful sonic attributes that ride with these traits.
Click to expand...

Paul...I agree with GIGO but remember, you can spend the dollars up front in the signal chain (source/pre) to preserve as much of the signal as possible but if components downstream of that introduce distortion (either in the amp/speaker) or in the connecting links (i.e., cabling) then you are not getting the performance you paid for up front. All of which is to say that system matching where you pay for pieces in the signal chain that are of equal performance level is ultimately the best way to build a system.

A system is as strong as its weakest link and all that jazz type thing :-)
 
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