Raidho C3.0 Measurement

LenWhite

LenWhite

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My new media room was recently acoustically measured by Acoustic Frontiers. AF had also measured my FR where I previously listened to the C3's.

AF noted gross frequency response deviations in both room were the same; a frequency response dip from 1.5KHz-7KHz which he attributes to irregular off axis performance around the midrange/tweeter crossover; and a significant rise below 300Hz attributable intentionally boosted output in the 100Hz-300Hz range.

My C3's were among the first built in 2008. I upgraded to the 3.1 tweeters in 2012. There are acoustic treatments that can be applied to the media room to ameliorate the frequency response issues. But I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this phenomenon with their Raidho's. Or perhaps if this could be an issue with the crossover in my specific 2008 speakers attributable to a failing crossover, or the crossover interaction with 3.1 tweeter upgrade.
 
LenWhite said:
My new media room was recently acoustically measured by Acoustic Frontiers. AF had also measured my FR where I previously listened to the C3's.

AF noted gross frequency response deviations in both room were the same; a frequency response dip from 1.5KHz-7KHz which he attributes to irregular off axis performance around the midrange/tweeter crossover; and a significant rise below 300Hz attributable intentionally boosted output in the 100Hz-300Hz range.

My C3's were among the first built in 2008. I upgraded to the 3.1 tweeters in 2012. There are acoustic treatments that can be applied to the media room to ameliorate the frequency response issues. But I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this phenomenon with their Raidho's. Or perhaps if this could be an issue with the crossover in my specific 2008 speakers attributable to a failing crossover, or the crossover interaction with 3.1 tweeter upgrade.
Click to expand...

Hi Len,

This is extensively addressed here on the Raidho sub-forum in a number of Raidho D3 threads. I think you'll find exactly what you are looking for there and numerous suggestions on how to mitigate it.

Best,
Ken
 
Thanks Ken. I tried several search strings in the Raidho forum section relating to frequency response/crossover issues but found nothing. Could you possibly point me to a relevant thread?
 
Len, welcome to Audioshark. I've owned three pairs of Raidho speakers. This trait you speak of has been discussed many times. To mitigate the bass hump, there are a number of things you can try. You already have excellent Raidho friend equipment (Rowland). Next is cabling, but you also have Raidho friendly cabling (Nordost). Next, would be to try things like granite slabs under the speakers. You may even want to speak with Raidho to see if they are offering any new footer/isolation/vibration control devices. Obviously, room placement plays a big part as well.

Hopefully others will chime in with some additional suggestions.
 
Len,

Welcome to Audio Shark! Mike has given you several excellent suggestions, which will all help to better control the mid-bass output. There also are upgraded isolation footers you can purchase from Raidho at the Ceramic and Diamond level that help to better control the mid-bass. Here are some photos of the kit:

Raidho Speaker stand at High End cable

Raidho Speaker stand adjustable feet High End cable

There are others more well-versed than myself who can comment about speaker placement, power distribution, earth grounding, as well as other suggestions to improve performance.

Best,
Ken
 
I received a response from Raidho stating the speakers are not intended to be flat. They have a deliberate 3dB frequency dip due to our psychoacoustic capability to recognize the same frequency content from two different sources, presumably between the midrange and tweeter. This dip masks that effect. I assume the response addresses the 1.5KHz-7KHz of my post#1.

This is apparently called the "Gundry Dip" which after some reading sounds quite controversial.

The response from Raidho didn't specifically address the bump in the 100Hz-300Hz range.
 
Len, the designer of Raidho's speakers Michael Borresen intentionally doesn't set out for his speakers to measure flat. As he says "we don't listen to measurements, we listen to music".
 
While most owners seem to have issues with the boosted mid bass, my problem is with the HF response. What I hear is the gundry dip from the mid to the upper mids, with which I have no issue, coupled with a sharply rising HF response that is manifested by exacerbated sibilants and excessive resolution of HF information that may seem exciting initially but gets fatiguing with long term listening. I've mentioned this in another thread and no amount of break in, positioning, cable swaps, etc has tamed what to me is a boosted HF frequency response to showcase the ability of the admittedly excellent ribbon tweeter.
 
It's likely most (all) speakers don't measure completely flat - that wasn't the intention of the question and I'm certainly not criticizing Raidho. I completely agree my Raidho C3's sound extremely good in my purposed listening room. When I complete my media room interior acoustic design the C3's will very likely have more focus, low frequency articulation, bass impact and tightness.

The Acoustic Frontiers interior acoustic design will not change the way the Raidho C3's are "voiced". And it's unlikely simply moving the speakers or the listening chair will or should ameliorate this design since the C3's measured the same frequency response areas in both my previous listening space and the new media room.

My OP asked the question could my speakers have an issue, and further do speakers sound better without the measurable "Gundry Dip" and the boost in the 100Hz-300Hz frequency range?

I'm not arguing since obviously Raidho believes the speakers sound best this way. Nevertheless my limited reading of the "Gundry Dip" shows this somewhat controversial.
 
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