Qubuz in the USA is just around the corner.

I stand corrected Jack, I have Studio. I do want to collect some of my favorite files, but I want to feel out the service first.

It's not nearly as intuitive as I would like. It takes work to figure out. I just went into Qobuz again through Roon. I asked for Rod Stewart. I forget how it all went down, but it took work to find the albums that were offered by Qobuz. The tidal ones all populate at the top of the screen.

It does sound pretty good. They dynamics are much better with Qobuz through Roon on my setup with 24/96 streaming than I was getting as a stand alone service on this server. More air and effortless presentation. If I had MQA I might feel they are 2 peas in a pod. I only get the first MQA to 24/44.1. Its no the same. I have heard a partial unfold on a Lumin to a PS Audio DAC and the complete unfold is a lot better than the partial.
 
kzhtoo said:
MSB is a DAC, not one box plug and play.

I don’t know how to respond to someone saying music servers and streamers also have a computer inside as an argument to music server vs. PC topic. On top of that, saying I use my PC dedicated for music, so it’s a dedicated music server. What I’m referring to should be readily apparent (if not I apologize for lack of a better and clearer word). Also, tired of recommending people to try “dedicated” music server (if you know what I’m saying this time) because it’s not only about the convenience, but only to meet with a response like “hey my PC is my dedicated music server”.
Click to expand...


Kzhtoo, Im with you on this. I agree with the basics of Nicoff saying all these devices are computers of a sort. I personally define a server as a device that no longer uses a standard computer case. No longer uses a standard computer SMPS. Additionally the case should have internal shielding of MB and drives from each other as well as power supplies. There should also be vibration isolation devices on MB and drives. Software is a critical component.

You could take an HD Plex case and use a external HD Plex power supply along with a couple HD plex voltage regulators and put them to a good MB with (well though out and implemented software) and get very good results. I call this the minimum entry level step into a server. It is reminiscent of both my earlier servers. Those earlier servers were way better than a laptop. The updated version I have now is sonically far superior to my earlier version.​
 
I don't know anything about using Roon but from using the "embedded" version and the desktop app on both I find them both to take work to get used to. For example in Qobuz if you just search Rod Stewart in addition to bringing up track and album titles it should also bring up just a Rod Stewart box along with other boxes with Stewart and different other artists. By clicking on the Rod Stewart alone box it should eliminate any collaboration titles. For both services searching and then saving to favorites is easier on the desktop apps. I do it that way every Friday on both apps though with a UK Qobuz subscription you get new releases on Thursday afternoon due to the time difference.
 
kzhtoo said:
I don’t know how to respond....
Click to expand...

I don't know how to respond to someone who thinks a pre-built music server is magically different then a custom built computer. As a software engineer and someone who has built and customized computers for 30+ years I can say there is no major difference other than the enclosures, software configuration, and marketing.

I also worked for a while with someone who offers music servers and Roon Nucleus in their lineup of equipment. I have taken them apart, ordered parts, etc. The CPUs, RAM, HDD/SDD, etc., come from the same distribution channels (same parts). It really is a matter of how they are configured hardware, casing, OS, software, etc. And thus, for my purposes I can in fact build a computer that is in fact a dedicated music server. It does nothing but serves my music to my DAC, ala dedicated. Just because it does not have a label on the front that says music server does not mean it cannot be a dedicated music server.

No matter what magic mojo some people try to sell, they are in fact... all computers at their heart.

I would put my digital front end against most anything out there under $20k-$30k or more (yes I don't claim to be able to compete against the MSB, Lampi's, etc.). Our audio club considers my digital front end the standard to which others are compared... not saying it is the best, only saying if you know what you are doing you can do pretty darn good.
 
Randy Myers said:
I don't know how to respond to someone who thinks a pre-built music server is magically different then a custom built computer. As a software engineer and someone who has built and customized computers for 30+ years I can say there is no major difference other than the enclosures, software configuration, and marketing.

I also worked for a while with someone who offers music servers and Roon Nucleus in their lineup of equipment. I have taken them apart, ordered parts, etc. The CPUs, RAM, HDD/SDD, etc., come from the same distribution channels (same parts). It really is a matter of how they are configured hardware, casing, OS, software, etc. And thus, for my purposes I can in fact build a computer that is in fact a dedicated music server. It does nothing but serves my music to my DAC, ala dedicated. Just because it does not have a label on the front that says music server does not mean it cannot be a dedicated music server.

No matter what magic mojo some people try to sell, they are in fact... all computers at their heart.

I would put my digital front end against most anything out there under $20k-$30k or more (yes I don't claim to be able to compete against the MSB, Lampi's, etc.). Our audio club considers my digital front end the standard to which others are compared... not saying it is the best, only saying if you know what you are doing you can do pretty darn good.
Click to expand...

I really do not care what you use. Or if people think your digital “front end” is the standard for “anything out there under $20k-30k or more”.

But if you’re going to start with “I don’t know how to respond”, at least quote me fully.

kzhtoo said:
MSB is a DAC, not one box plug and play.

I don’t know how to respond to someone saying music servers and streamers also have a computer inside as an argument to music server vs. PC topic. On top of that, saying I use my PC dedicated for music, so it’s a dedicated music server. What I’m referring to should be readily apparent (if not I apologize for lack of a better and clearer word). Also, tired of recommending people to try “dedicated” music server (if you know what I’m saying this time) because it’s not only about the convenience, but only to meet with a response like “hey my PC is my dedicated music server”.
Click to expand...
 
Randy Myers said:
I also worked for a while with someone who offers music servers and Roon Nucleus in their lineup of equipment. I have taken them apart, ordered parts, etc. The CPUs, RAM, HDD/SDD, etc., come from the same distribution channels (same parts). It really is a matter of how they are configured hardware, casing, OS, software, etc. And thus, for my purposes I can in fact build a computer that is in fact a dedicated music server.
Click to expand...

I don't consider Nucleus to be a dedicated music server in the audiophile hardware sense, but this one is (photo from positive-feedback.com):
sgm2015-interior.jpg


If someone can DIY something like this I'd be impressed.
 

Attachments

  • sgm2015-interior.jpg
    sgm2015-interior.jpg
    5 MB · Views: 12
To me, the Nucleus should be used to run Roon Core. Period. I still prefer a NAS for storage duties. RAID 5 or whatever and go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Randy, if your home made server does not have a linear PS feeding it with at least 2 HD plex or better voltage regulators, well, it does not "sound" good. Server upgrades have been far more audible to me than dac upgrades. The Mojo Mystique V3 dac upgrade was actually pretty big, but the server build is very audible.
A store bought plastic case is a big vibration and noise amplifier. A store bought smps is just junk. Sorry Randy.

Now, if your feeding an Ultra Rendu from your server over ethernet, your a lot closer to success with getting good sound. If you dont have an audiophile switch, that gigafoil in another thread wil probably be another very audible improvement.
By the way, if you want an HDplex voltae regulator, i have one to sell. You still need a PS.
 
Mike said:
To me, the Nucleus should be used to run Roon Core. Period. I still prefer a NAS for storage duties. RAID 5 or whatever and go.

I’m seriously considering your advice, Mike. Roon core runs fine on my Mac, but the remote app frequently won’t run at all on my iPad. Interestingly, even when the remote app doesn’t run on my iPad it runs fine on my iPhone. But the iPhone screen is too small to enjoy reading all the extra Roon content, which is one of the things I like about Roon.
Click to expand...
 
Mike said:
To me, the Nucleus should be used to run Roon Core. Period. I still prefer a NAS for storage duties. RAID 5 or whatever and go.
Click to expand...

interesting -- other than the on board storage of the nucleus being limited to only one 2.5" SATA drive which caps the storage and precludes backup/raid configs, are there other reasons / issues that would have you prefer NAS?
 
Dth31 said:
Mike said:
To me, the Nucleus should be used to run Roon Core. Period. I still prefer a NAS for storage duties. RAID 5 or whatever and go.

I’m seriously considering your advice, Mike. Roon core runs fine on my Mac, but the remote app frequently won’t run at all on my iPad. Interestingly, even when the remote app doesn’t run on my iPad it runs fine on my iPhone. But the iPhone screen is too small to enjoy reading all the extra Roon content, which is one of the things I like about Roon.
Click to expand...

I have never had an issue running the Roon Controller on my Android tablet or Microsoft Surface Pro tablet... however I remember having issues keep the iPad connected when I helped at RMAF last year.
Click to expand...
 
aKnyght said:
interesting -- other than the on board storage of the nucleus being limited to only one 2.5" SATA drive which caps the storage and precludes backup/raid configs, are there other reasons / issues that would have you prefer NAS?
Click to expand...

If I remember correct you can also mount external drives to a Nucleus.

I prefer internal drives rather then relying on the network to stream from a NAS.
 
Randy Myers said:
If I remember correct you can also mount external drives to a Nucleus.

I prefer internal drives rather then relying on the network to stream from a NAS.
Click to expand...

Internal SATA direct to the MB with a dedicated linear style voltage regulator and or additional linear PS are generally better than external. The Asus M170M-plus MB takes at least 4 SATA drives. Only 1 is being used in the Nuc +. You could easily fit another drive or 2 in the case but you would want to power it/them with a external linear PS. They look to be sandwiched between some 1/4" AL plates for I assume vibration dampening and emi rejection. Not hard at all to recreate.
I have found with decent ethernet cables and my Linear Solution switch, its really all but impossible to tell whether the music is better from my nas or my internal drives. I don't bother with music on my internal drives accept for what I store in the offline library with Qobuz. It does sound better in the offline library than streamed.

If I were to put a linear PS on my NAS, who knows, it might start to sound better as the data packet is going through a very nice Femto clock switch as opposed to what ever clock is between the internal drive and MB. It also hits a JCAT Femto ethernet card on a dedicated PS when it enters my server. Thats a lot of good clocking and isolated power.
 
Randy Myers said:
I don't know how to respond to someone who thinks a pre-built music server is magically different then a custom built computer. As a software engineer and someone who has built and customized computers for 30+ years I can say there is no major difference other than the enclosures, software configuration, and marketing.

I also worked for a while with someone who offers music servers and Roon Nucleus in their lineup of equipment. I have taken them apart, ordered parts, etc. The CPUs, RAM, HDD/SDD, etc., come from the same distribution channels (same parts). It really is a matter of how they are configured hardware, casing, OS, software, etc. And thus, for my purposes I can in fact build a computer that is in fact a dedicated music server. It does nothing but serves my music to my DAC, ala dedicated. Just because it does not have a label on the front that says music server does not mean it cannot be a dedicated music server.

No matter what magic mojo some people try to sell, they are in fact... all computers at their heart.

I would put my digital front end against most anything out there under $20k-$30k or more (yes I don't claim to be able to compete against the MSB, Lampi's, etc.). Our audio club considers my digital front end the standard to which others are compared... not saying it is the best, only saying if you know what you are doing you can do pretty darn good.
Click to expand...

Randy, curious about your choice of using a Falcon Tiki. How did you come to picking out this component? I haven't been into pc hardware for a number of years now but I remember back when I was Falcon was known for having amazing case work but nothing spectacular under the hood in the sense that you could buy all those components and put them in a more modest case for much less. Certainly not trying to question your choices or anything - just curious why you chose a falcon vs. building your own given your experience and your comments about pc's vs. music servers (which i mostly agree with but don't have enough experience with music servers to consider myself an authority)
 
Skanda said:
Randy, curious about your choice of using a Falcon Tiki. How did you come to picking out this component? I haven't been into pc hardware for a number of years now but I remember back when I was Falcon was known for having amazing case work but nothing spectacular under the hood in the sense that you could buy all those components and put them in a more modest case for much less. Certainly not trying to question your choices or anything - just curious why you chose a falcon vs. building your own given your experience and your comments about pc's vs. music servers (which i mostly agree with but don't have enough experience with music servers to consider myself an authority)
Click to expand...

I have always felt that Falcon builds superior PCs, yes as you noted they make some of the finest cases available anywhere. They still created and build their own. They also are one of the better companies at matching components and their assembly work is always top notch. The reason I use and recommend the Tiki is because it is a smaller but amazingly well made case. But more importantly I choose Falcon because they have the inside track so to speak. They have been building custom computers for about 30 years now and almost always get the best of the best parts. There truly is a variance in parts and what someone will go out and purchase themselves will not always be the same grade A that Falcon gets. They also have pull with the manufactures and will sometimes get custom firmware, etc., that other companies do not have access to. In other words, I consider them the best. This is my opinion from dealing with them for the past 15+ years.

Even back when I was purchasing gaming machines for my wife and me I got to the point where I preferred to get a Falcon and then modify it if I wanted something else. I would usually have them leave extra connectors for additional hard drivers, etc., when I had them build us new machines. They would customize the machines to my preferences. I remember spending a week in Medford (taking care of arrangements for my brother in law, he lived there). We had an off day and Falcon invited Cheryal and I to come over to their facilities. Very impressive organization and it was nice to meet the folks I had spoken with on the phone so many times.

I also state that someone who wants to build their own may very well come close to what Falcon offers. Of course you could not purchase as good of case as they offer, but you could probably come up with similar parts and do a very good job on your own, if someone was so inclined.
 
is the tiki relatively silent? have you been able to compare it to something like an aurender? iirc a top end tiki is not too far off from an n10 in pricing. i have trouble putting that kind of money towards a music server considering how much value i'd get out of a computer of the same amount (i work with very large amounts of data so any extra processing power is always welcome)
 
My Tiki is quite. I do hear it if I am right next to it, but hardly anything. Certainly hear nothing from just a few feet away. The Tiki's are powerful machines. How powerful is up to you, I do not believe that a top end machine is required, but if you don't mind spending the $$$.... I figure about $3k will get you an excellent Tiki that will serve the purpose well. My Tiki is a few years old now, so certainly not as powerful as current offerings from Falcon Northwest, but plenty enough. I run Roon and HQPlayer. If it can run HQPlayer without a hitch it is getting the job done....

Mine has a Devil's Canyon CPU, 16 GB RAM. I have removed any spinning drives, hard drive and optical. I have three SSDs running in the machine and all is well.
 
I have a Tiki. I first heard of the Tiki through Randy. Research that I did online confirmed many of the things that Randy mentioned. The Tiki is really silent and is a great machine.
I am using it as a dedicated audio computer running Roon and HQPlayer. The only time I can hear anything is at the start of a music session and HQP is demanding a ton of power. The fan noise lasts a few seconds and then goes away.
I much prefer to pay a little bit more and purchase a custom built machine like the Tiki than trying to save a few bucks building one on my own. Peace of mind for me. Ymmv.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top