Put together a dream $12,000 system for me...

slightly over budget : Diablo 120 integrated amplifier-DAC ($15,450 USD, Harbeth 30.2 what close to $6400 thats more than slightly its like way way over by $9800 :D

Can you really pay too much for an audio system [emoji3]?

As a matter of fact, a slightly higher cost system might end up being cheaper, as you probably stick with it longer because there is less need for upgrades.


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I think asking for a complete system is brilliant because the op is using our experience in gear we've already mixed and matched. I buy a pair of speakers first or an amp then decide which one i'm going to match the other to! We're saving many demos
 
I can not recommend an entire system, nobody can. That is foolish to even try. I would question anyone recommending an entire system right off the bat because since you can't hear it you have no idea whether it works for you or not and if it doesn't you have blown your whole wad on dissatisfaction. If you are anything like me, you can only do this once, there is no money for do-overs, your decisions have to be as educated and vetted as possible.
I don't like to strongly recommend particular pieces in this manner because it is completely subjective. What I like, others will not and visa versa. I can tell you my experience with this or that, but it will likely not be the same as yours.

I am glad you are taking a year to research this, that should be enough. The best thing to do first is ask yourself the following questions:

1) What are your dominate media formats for listening (vinyl, CD, stream, PC, etc)? This is important as it initially narrows down the type of gear to look at.

2) What size is the room you plan on having the system in and how much space can you allow for the electronics and the speakers? Cramming a pair of towers into a rather small room will severely limit your sound quality because the will be no room for setup.

3)What kind of overall sound signature do you like most (something that leans toward the warm side of neutral or the bright side? Something that is mostly flat? Something that is more analytical or fun and musical? etc)?

I do highly recommend building this system one piece at a time. I also recommend sectioning your budget. For example: so much allocated to the amp, so much to speakers, etc.
I do recommend starting with the speakers. I would also allocate the largest portion of your budget to speakers. Without good and the right speakers for you, nothing else will matter. I can't tell you how much of your $12k to allocate to the speakers, but no need to go crazy with something like $9k or $10k. You can get incredibly fantastic speakers to your liking for as little as just under $1k. I'm not saying to limit yourself to that amount, it is just an example of what is possible. In other words, if you really like a pair of speakers and they check all the boxes for you, but they are say, $1200 for example and not considered "high-end" or "audiophile" by most of those folks, DO NOT let that influence your decision! This system is for you, nobody else.

Once you have the speakers next you will want to find the amp. It is far easier to find the amp after you select the speakers because you need to match amp to speakers. Beyond just load requirements (4 ohm, 6 ohm, 8 ohm) you need to match the signature timbre of sound. If you have bright speakers you do not want an amp the leans toward the forward side of neutral (bright). In that case you would want an amp that is as close to neutral as possible or something that leans towards the warm side of neutral.

After you have that, you can then work on the source gear.

I would not worry about cables. Cables may give you about 1% sound "improvement" at best. No need to go nuts, just get decent ones, hell, some $30 or $40 interconnects will more than do the job. Same with speaker cable, you can get away with a lot or make your own from Beldin or Canare or one of the industry standards like that. (That is what a lot of the uber expensive cable makers use).

At the end of the day you want to have some money left over for music if you do other than streaming. In fact, the goal is also to come in under budget by any amount.

I live in California, but let me tell you, there may be a few more shops around, but not much. For me I only have four within driving distance and the closest one of them I would not trust as far as I could throw them. Another one is some distance, but doable. Another is just a shade too much of a drive.

If you are comfortable with this, I would also recommend contacting those makes that allow for in-home demo. That is becoming more and more popular. One example would be PS Audio, there are others, I just can't think of them off the top of my head right now. For speakers it is a challenge. there might be some makes that will lend bookshelf speakers for demo, but towers, no. The shipping alone makes it a non-starter.
There is usually a charge for in-home demos so be aware. I would narrow it down to two choices if possible if you are going to go the in-home demo route. That way you don't spend 30% of your budget doing that.

If it comes to the shove, you can get speakers first and if you have nothing to hook them up to, you can get a cheap integrated like an Outlaw or Marantz or something for $200 let's say to give you something to listen to while you shop for your main amp or what have you. If you have an amp already, by all means use that as long as it can handle the speaker load.

This is just my take in a nutshell. I'm not an audiophile by any stretch. I just like and know good sound quality for my music. Music is the most important to me. The gear is just a means to an ends. I do have experience in the industry including journalistic, but that adds up to a whole lot of nothing. I'm just a realist.


Good post! Thank you so much. A lot of very good info to consider. I need to listen to a lot more systems in order to decide upon a "personality" for my system.

I generally like a slightly open top end (not too much), yet good clean, clear, low mids and bass. I do like some warmth. But I don't like speakers that sound veiled or like they have a blanket thrown over them. Bottom line is I like a fairly balanced frequency spectrum with some warmth.

I'd like to split the difference between musicality and analytical. Musicality. I like musicality. I'm not really looking for recording studio monitor linearity but I want some accuracy/transparency, if that makes sense. I'm not looking for a highly colored speaker either.

Most of the language I just used to describe my sonic tastes is not all that helpful, I know. And, since it is nearly impossible to describe sound in words, listening will obviously be the key. Lots of listening.
 
Merrill of Merrill Audio allows in home audition. He builds very good Class D amps. Easily in your budget.
Cara preamp - $3500.00
Taranis power amp - $2500.00 or Thor Monblocks $5k. He also has some 5 digit price points if you change your mind and go crazy :)
Speakers like I already mentioned would work, Revel Monitor Audio, Dynaudio who has a variety of lines and price points.

Cary Audio sells direct if interested in tubes and allows a 60 day time to audition. Their gear has a "house" sound, as many brands do. So take that time. In addition, they need plenty of break in.

If not working with a local though, I'd find someone who has several brands to offer and the expertise to steer you in the right direction. If only we knew anyone like that around here, LOL

There are other online retailers, my experience has been they will not recommend one brand over another, don't have the experience with the gear to tell you about the sound or want to sell the flavor of the day. I'm not just saying that, in the past I've bought gear from East coast to West coast dealers but never from an online retailer for the reasons mentioned. if I'm buying I have to be comfortable with the person selling. Now I have a local guy I work with.
 
Good post! Thank you so much. A lot of very good info to consider. I need to listen to a lot more systems in order to decide upon a "personality" for my system.

I generally like a slightly open top end (not too much), yet good clean, clear, low mids and bass. I do like some warmth. But I don't like speakers that sound veiled or like they have a blanket thrown over them. Bottom line is I like a fairly balanced frequency spectrum with some warmth.

I'd like to split the difference between musicality and analytical. Musicality. I like musicality. I'm not really looking for recording studio monitor linearity but I want some accuracy/transparency, if that makes sense. I'm not looking for a highly colored speaker either.

Most of the language I just used to describe my sonic tastes is not all that helpful, I know. And, since it is nearly impossible to describe sound in words, listening will obviously be the key. Lots of listening.

If you are interested in tubes, you could take a look at Prima Luna, good bang for buck. Their stuff sounds good and kind of like how you describe. Warm yet not too warm and just enough openness on top to satisfy. There are other good choices too.
If you are going solid state, your choices widen unless you don't like solid state of course.
When it comes to speakers you won't find many that have a veiled sound. Speakers tend to range from harshly bright to too much bottom. When looking for speakers and if you can demo any it is important to use your own music you are familiar with. Relying on the dealer choice is a fools errand because they play it very safe. You don't want to get the speakers home only to find that they don't do well with the music you listen to.
I've heard countless speakers starting with my own quest years ago. For example I found Vandersteens to excel for classical music, but not much else and they fall apart with anything uptempo. It is the way they are voiced, they are not fast speakers. I'm not a fan of horned speakers. I'm also not a fan of Magicos or Wilsons for example. I know that is blasphemy around here, but they just don't come close to suiting my taste is all, cost not withstanding.
Almost all speakers are colored, just as most amps are. There is not a "perfect" piece of gear, period. You just need to decide what flavor you like. I suggest listening to different types of speakers if you can. I don't have time to give my opinion on all the speakers I have heard, besides that doesn't do you any good, because like music, speakers are personal. What you like, someone else will hate.
If you want to know, I landed years ago on Paradigm Studios (Discontinued). I heard the whole line at the time and found the Studios to my liking. I like a balanced sound not tilted too much either way with ability to go to the smallest detail, in other words, "revealing" even if it means I chance upon a recording in my collection that is not as good as I thought. I like the truth. I have heard the Personas and don't care for them, I find them too harsh and tilted up. I have not heard the Prestige yet. Oh yes, I'm a tower guy.

Again, I would ignore my opinions because that is all they are. Opinions are biased, we all have bias. We all seek what we resonate with.
When you hear the speakers you like, you will know it. When I landed on the Paradigms (after 38 other speakers...whew!), I knew I found the right speakers for me, but I went back and listened to them two more times for an hour to an hour and a half each before I laid down my money. I wanted to be absolutely sure. That's just me. Of course this was back when we still had shops.
 
...I'm looking for any combination of speakers, amps (integrated or separates), and streaming hardware and software. I don't need a turntable. It would be nice to have something to rip my CDs and have high quality sound. I prefer a 2 channel system and not HT. Speakers can be passive or active. If you go active please recommend a preamp. I also prefer all new gear as good deals are likely to expire by the time I'm ready to buy (about a year). I'm looking for a system that can hold it's own with about anything below $25,000. This thread is mainly to help me become more familiar with names of various top notch, high end audio builders. Thank you!


12K spent on used equipmet can get you really really close and competive to top notch stuff . If new only , Mid-Fi + at best ...



regards
 
Sure, I’ll jump in.

If you’re not sure, and want to spend the 12K, then use Suncoast Mike and be done with it.

At this dollar, you will have a nice system.

Warning: if you like it you’ll soon want more, and will go down the upgrade path, this only means your $12K will return $5/6K towards a bigger system.




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Sure, I’ll jump in.

If you’re not sure, and want to spend the 12K, then use Suncoast Mike and be done with it.

At this dollar, you will have a nice system.

Warning: if you like it you’ll soon want more, and will go down the upgrade path, this only means your $12K will return $5/6K towards a bigger system.




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+1.

Add to this post. Once you get them don’t read any more forum post and check the site anymore. Only way you can be satisfied and happy with your system [emoji38]


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...i have also listed a higher priced speaker that i would consider as an alternative:

speaker upgrade:
$12,500 ... viking acoustics briton III halvdan ...price is also msrp.

for sale directly from Viking... $8,250
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ch7f-viking-acoustics-briton-monitors

also, from time-to-time dealers / manufacturers have demos and trade-ins which can be veritable bargains...
https://www.viking-acoustics.com/instrument-grande-voix
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9d5d4-viking-acoustics-briton-full-range

in doing exhaustive research your audio dollar will go farther than you might otherwise expect.
 
While discussed in other forum threads, I question the wisdom of buying an "integrated" that has a DAC in it.
How often has anyone here changed their DAC in the last several years?
I can see that it is a simple one box solution that will appeal to some but as technology, especially in the digital realm, continues to evolve at a rapid pace I feel that a person would be "tying their hands" with such a piece.
YMMV
 
for sale directly from Viking... $8,250
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ch7f-viking-acoustics-briton-monitors

also, from time-to-time dealers / manufacturers have demos and trade-ins which can be veritable bargains...
https://www.viking-acoustics.com/instrument-grande-voix
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9d5d4-viking-acoustics-briton-full-range

in doing exhaustive research your audio dollar will go farther than you might otherwise expect.


Viking recommends as a min,

1. 1.5 Watt Tooby power or
2. 50 watt min SS to drive this model ..


run ... :)
 
While discussed in other forum threads, I question the wisdom of buying an "integrated" that has a DAC in it.
How often has anyone here changed their DAC in the last several years?
I can see that it is a simple one box solution that will appeal to some but as technology, especially in the digital realm, continues to evolve at a rapid pace I feel that a person would be "tying their hands" with such a piece.
YMMV
Yea,but we're getting started here and many of them have inputs and outputs to add a stand alone dac at a later date.
 
I should clarify, I consider an "online dealer" those who sell almost exclusive online via a website and magazine. I've not ever used them for the reasons mentioned. I have bought from retailers, B&M, who happen to sell online, or would if no dealer in the area with the line. As an example, long before I knew of Mike, I purchased my Conrad Johnson gear from a dealer now out of business called Spearit Sound. The guy who helped me knew his stuff and would allow a return if I didn't like the gear. I don't consider someone like that a "online dealer/retailer". However, if looking for a certain line or in an area not being serviced, these types of dealers can be a real asset.

Merrill of Merrill Audio allows in home audition. He builds very good Class D amps. Easily in your budget.
Cara preamp - $3500.00
Taranis power amp - $2500.00 or Thor Monblocks $5k. He also has some 5 digit price points if you change your mind and go crazy :)
Speakers like I already mentioned would work, Revel Monitor Audio, Dynaudio who has a variety of lines and price points.

Cary Audio sells direct if interested in tubes and allows a 60 day time to audition. Their gear has a "house" sound, as many brands do. So take that time. In addition, they need plenty of break in.

If not working with a local though, I'd find someone who has several brands to offer and the expertise to steer you in the right direction. If only we knew anyone like that around here, LOL

There are other online retailers, my experience has been they will not recommend one brand over another, don't have the experience with the gear to tell you about the sound or want to sell the flavor of the day. I'm not just saying that, in the past I've bought gear from East coast to West coast dealers but never from an online retailer for the reasons mentioned. if I'm buying I have to be comfortable with the person selling. Now I have a local guy I work with.
 
I would pick the Devialet Expert 140 Pro ($6500) for myself. It hits all the feature checkboxes except ripping CDs but I assume you plan to use your computer for that. It sounds incredibly good and pulls out amazing amounts of detail with a very balanced and neutral sound. If you want a nicer streaming music user interface, you can front it with Roon.

For speakers, I might go with the Acoustic Zen Adagios ($4500) or Salk Sound Veracity HT3 ($6500). Although the Veracity HT3 sensitivity is pretty low and it would put you slightly over your $12k budget. A friend of mine likes Spendor and their D7 ($6400) may also be a good choice; the D7 is also in the Devialet SAM database.
 
032519-ELAC-600.jpg

"I heard more good sound in the Trends Electronics / Elac room, where Elac's wireless-capable (but wired at the show) Navis ARF-51 3-way powered speakers ($CA6400) were delivering big sound and deep, pounding bass. Each driver in the Navis is powered by an amp (bass, midrange, and tweeter: 160Wpc, 100Wpc, and 40Wpc, respectively) which might help explain the clarity and force I heard across the frequency range. Electronic bass whomps never overwhelmed softer sounds such as delicate cymbal trails, which were allowed to express themselves without interruption. Downstream components included Alchemy by Elac's DDP-2 preamplifier/DAC/streamer ($CA3000) and Discover server ($CA1500), which streamed music from what appeared to be the most commonly used streaming platform among exhibitors: Tidal. Cabling was provided by Audioquest."

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content...e-elac-neat-acoustics-etc#X0CiYRG5gWaRqexD.99
 
If you use a laptop or other digital source already maybe the Kii speakers would be an option. They are about $11k. Connect your laptop and stream Qobus.

Not really sure if this works.
 
I agree with a. Wayne. If you invest some time and effort , you can build a very nice $25K system for $12Kish used....Most gear will last forever. Why not buy with the depreciation at someone else's expense....
 
Audiovector QR5 - 3350 USD
Primare I35 Prisma | Integrated amplifier and streaming module - 3350 USD
Ansuz cables and accesories : 2x powercord, speakerwires, ethernet cable, Mainz 8 X power distributioner and 3x darkz A. - 5700 USD

Pricing is not 100% right though

Total price : 12.400 usd
 
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